Jazz vs. Mavs in round one

[Handlogten's Heros]

By the way the more I think about it I think Luka will miss Games 1 and 2 plus maybe more like the entire series.

Obviously we will know more later today... but I think the schedule could do us a huge favor... if we started on Sunday and there was a two day break in between games 1 and 2 (this happens to maximize TV games) then it really helps them. I'm really curious to see the whole schedule. If you go up 3-0 they may just not risk it.

If they win game 1 then it buys them some time. It isn't crazy at all to think they could win without Luka. Brunson and Dinwiddie are solid and if they get hot... I think if Luka sits the first two you have to go up 2-0 so they question how wise it is to bring him back at all.

I will say this... If he plays and we don't force him to be involved on defense every play I will be pissed.

 

[MTS]

When the series happened, the narrative everywhere was that Donovan led the team while the team played great defensively.

Now, your narrative now is that Don played well but Rudy also dominated. That's not what the talk was in 2018.

In 10 years, the narrative will be that Rudy was the reason we won that series and Don was pretty good too.

I'm not saying Rudy played poorly, but he wasn't some star in that series. He battled with Adams, and won that battle most times.

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I like how I link directly to the actual data showing our defense was bottom 4 in the league in games without Gobert and top 4 in games with Gobert, and Lopo's only counter-argument is "That doesn't match the narrative back then though!"

If the narrative doesn't match the data, that's an indictment on the narrative, not the data.

 

[LoPo]

I like how I link directly to the actual data showing our defense was bottom 4 in the league in games without Gobert and top 4 in games with Gobert, and Lopo's only counter-argument is "That doesn't match the narrative back then though!"

If the narrative doesn't match the data, that's an indictment on the narrative, not the data.

I was talking about the playoff series versus the Oklahoma City Thunder. We all know Rudy impacts the other team's offense. No ****. That's his job. Just like it was also the primary jobs for Favors and Jae - Defense.

Rudy outplayed Adams (like somebody mentioned earlier about the stats 13+ppg and 10+rpg to Adams' 10+ppg and 7+rpg), but it wasn't some domination like we would expect now.

 

[LoPo]

Back to the actual f-ing point of the thread.

I think we could and should win this series if Doncic is not 100% healthy. Hell, I think we could win the series if they were 100%. We have the talent to run with anybody.

 

[MTS]

I was talking about the playoff series versus the Oklahoma City Thunder. We all know Rudy impacts the other team's offense. No ****. That's his job. Just like it was also the primary jobs for Favors and Jae - Defense.

And the team, minus Gobert, was 27th in defense. With Gobert, they were top 4. Turns out Gobert was a little bit more important than everybody else.

If you're trying to argue that those stats are only applicable to the regular season, then let me ask this: Aside from your impulsive desire to hate on Gobert, do you have any reason, any evidence whatsoever to justify why you believe that Gobert was a defensive superstar all regular season but not in the 1st round against OKC when their paint scoring mysteriously died?

Rudy outplayed Adams (like somebody mentioned earlier about the stats 13+ppg and 10+rpg to Adams' 10+ppg and 7+rpg), but it wasn't some domination like we would expect now.

Comparing Rudy's ppg and rpg to the opposing center's is such a horrificly disingenous way to judge his impact. I hope that you know that and are just trolling.

 

[fishonjazz]

the curse started when he boned IT... I laid it out in its own thread. Lots of weird things happened when he boned IT and tampered with Hayward. His teams were still successful but man... they were setup for so much more than they have had. Kyrie went full flat earther on em... they had a ton of picks miss... Hayward breaks in the first game.... now Ainge leaves and they are back up.... just saying.

Ya I remember being certain that a championship was in their sights with all the assets they had and money available……. Funny enough, they are currently playing better than anyone and might get there this year. Right when ainge left lol


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[fishonjazz]

I didn't say that Rudy wasn't a great player.

In that series though, we led with team defense. Rubio, Jae, Favors, Ingles and even Don helped with those defensive efforts. Favors had a couple monster games. Yes Rudy played well, but believe it or not, our defense in the OKC series was a great team effort. Everybody chipped in. It wasn't like some Rudy masterclass.

It helped that their selfishness also helped them implode. Russ, Melo and George all trying to share one ball.

Melo was the mvp that series lol. Man he sucked


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[fishonjazz]

You said we had no true 2nd great player that postseason.



Our worst defensive stretch of the series came in Game 5 when Rudy had to sit due to foul trouble (on a terrible call). Our "great team effort" defensively sure fell apart in epic fashion when it wasn't anchored by Gobert.

Fun fact about the 2017-18 season. Rudy Gobert missed a month that season. During the month he missed, the Jazz had the 4th worst defense in the entire league:

Teams Advanced | Stats | NBA.com

A table featuring advanced information for each team in the league based on selected filters.

www.nba.com

Prior to his injury, the Jazz had the 4th best defense in the league:

Teams Advanced | Stats | NBA.com

A table featuring advanced information for each team in the league based on selected filters.

www.nba.com

After he returned from injury, the Jazz had the best defense in the league by a mile:

Teams Advanced | Stats | NBA.com

A table featuring advanced information for each team in the league based on selected filters.

www.nba.com

Its criminal how under appreciated gobert is. I think it was 2 years ago that i saw a stat saying that the jazz defense was the best defense of all time when gobert was on court and the worst defense in the league that season when he was on the bench. Thats insane **** right there.


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[LoPo]

And the team, minus Gobert, was 27th in defense. With Gobert, they were top 4. Turns out Gobert was a little bit more important than everybody else.

If you're trying to argue that those stats are only applicable to the regular season, then let me ask this: Aside from your impulsive desire to hate on Gobert, do you have any reason, any evidence whatsoever to justify why you believe that Gobert was a defensive superstar all regular season but not in the 1st round against OKC when their paint scoring mysteriously died?



Comparing Rudy's ppg and rpg to the opposing center's is such a horrificly disingenous way to judge his impact. I hope that you know that and are just trolling.

For f sake dude. I'm not hating on Rudy. You are are way too incredibly sensitive about Rudy Gobert.

Rudy was not a star in that series. He played well. I wasn't knocking him.

Somebody else mentioned how Rudy brought Adams' stats down. I brought that up as a response to him. Not everything is about you buddy.

 

[fishonjazz]

When the series happened, the narrative everywhere was that Donovan led the team while the team played great defensively.

Now, your narrative now is that Don played well but Rudy also dominated. That's not what the talk was in 2018.

In 10 years, the narrative will be that Rudy was the reason we won that series and Don was pretty good too.

I'm not saying Rudy played poorly, but he wasn't some star in that series. He battled with Adams, and won that battle most times.

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I agree with you on that series that donovan was the main reason we won. At least I remember watching that series and 100% feeling that donovan was the biggest reason we won.


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[fishonjazz]

Obviously we will know more later today... but I think the schedule could do us a huge favor... if we started on Sunday and there was a two day break in between games 1 and 2 (this happens to maximize TV games) then it really helps them. I'm really curious to see the whole schedule. If you go up 3-0 they may just not risk it.

If they win game 1 then it buys them some time. It isn't crazy at all to think they could win without Luka. Brunson and Dinwiddie are solid and if they get hot... I think if Luka sits the first two you have to go up 2-0 so they question how wise it is to bring him back at all.

I will say this... If he plays and we don't force him to be involved on defense every play I will be pissed.

Fantastic post. I agree with all of it. If luka is out then it’s obviously imperative that we win any game he misses.


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[MTS]

Rudy was not a star in that series.

Saying Rudy wasn't a star in that series is 1000% a knock against him.

The man responsible for converting our bottom 4 defense to a top 4 defense wasn't a star in a series where we held the 7th best offense in the NBA to a bottom 3 offense? Are you kidding me?