John Stockton’s dirty little secret

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Many on here have stated Stockton could’ve averaged a lot more points if he wanted to. I’m not the only one to say this.


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Averaging more points was not the discussion. You said he would have "reached higher heights" had he not played with Malone and I disagree. I'm done responding, though.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

Averaging more points was not the discussion. You said he would have "reached higher heights" had he not played with Malone and I disagree. I'm done responding, though.

You probably misunderstood me. He would’ve had better stats and not over shadowed


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[Thee Jazz Fan]

My way of proving he’s underrated even by jazz fans. Every time I think about it it’s incredible just to think just how good he actually was. He was actually very gifted offensively in terms of scoring and creating his own shot. Point is he had tunnel vision for setting up the offense and creating opportunities for others. He was at times too smart for his own good. He was too selfless, it’s just his make-up, how he thought, but when he was forced to, the real Stockton came out.

Game 6 vs the Rockets is a good example. Over the last 6-8 min he practically won that game by himself after being down by ten or so points to send the jazz to their first finals. He was inhuman during that stretch and it wasn’t the first time I saw him do that.

This isn’t me putting on my jazz goggles, but telling the truth based off what I’ve witnessed over the years of watching him play.


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[Knowledgeofmine]

Okay, this is a more interesting discussion to me.

You think Stockton is better than:
Duncan
Hakeem
Bill Russell
Dr J
Jerry West
Elgin Baylor
Moses Malone
Karl Malone

I disagree but that is interesting how high you have him ranked. A find a few of those pretty crazy, but you are a die hard old school Jazz fan so that makes sense that you are a homer about it. I wonder how many people agree with you that Stockton is better than Karl Malone.

I bet alot of people In Utah thinks like him and it's because Utah love the white player. All things considered even they will pick the white guy all the tim e. Thejazz says magic was physically gifted and taller so Stockton better point guard. Doesn't matter his size, magic was best ever hands down and it's not even close

 

[Knowledgeofmine]

My way of proving he’s underrated even by jazz fans. Every time I think about it it’s incredible just to think just how good he actually was. He was actually very gifted offensively in terms of scoring and creating his own shot. Point is he had tunnel vision for setting up the offense and creating opportunities for others. He was at times too smart for his own good. He was too selfless, it’s just his make-up, how he thought, but when he was forced to, the real Stockton came out.

Game 6 vs the Rockets is a good example. Over the last 6-8 min he practically won that game by himself after being down by ten or so points to send the jazz to their first finals. He was inhuman during that stretch and it wasn’t the first time I saw him do that.

This isn’t me putting on my jazz goggles, but telling the truth based off what I’ve witnessed over the years of watching him play.


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it's you putting on jazz goggles no matter how much you want to deny it. You have Stockton better then Tim Duncan overall. That shows your either
A. A homer
B. An idiot

 

[fishonjazz]

I bet alot of people In Utah thinks like him and it's because Utah love the white player. All things considered even they will pick the white guy all the tim e. Thejazz says magic was physically gifted and taller so Stockton better point guard. Doesn't matter his size, magic was best ever hands down and it's not even close

What a stupid post.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

it's you putting on jazz goggles no matter how much you want to deny it. You have Stockton better then Tim Duncan overall. That shows your either
A. A homer
B. An idiot

Lol. Had Stockton had Duncan’s roster, won a championship because of how talented the roster was, Stockton would’ve been more in the public eye.


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[Thee Jazz Fan]

I bet alot of people In Utah thinks like him and it's because Utah love the white player. All things considered even they will pick the white guy all the tim e. Thejazz says magic was physically gifted and taller so Stockton better point guard. Doesn't matter his size, magic was best ever hands down and it's not even close

White or black, I’d still have the same view about Stockton.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

I bet alot of people In Utah thinks like him and it's because Utah love the white player. All things considered even they will pick the white guy all the tim e.

I don’t know you from Adam, but there is no room for this kind of comment here on this board, because it couldnt be further from the truth as far as I’m concerned. Who’s the idiot now?

 

[Deleted member 95]

One issue I have is the fact some say he would've had better scoring numbers had he not had the mindset to be an overly pass first point guard so they give him a pass on it. Sorry, but style of play and mental makeup goes into account when judging a player. While Stockton could've put up more points he didn't and chose not too. He chose passing and assists over a more aggressive scoring game. Unfortunately that counts against him.

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[LogGrad98]

One issue I have is the fact some say he would've had better scoring numbers had he not had the mindset to be an overly pass first point guard so they give him a pass on it. Sorry, but style of play and mental makeup goes into account when judging a player. While Stockton could've put up more points he didn't and chose not too. He chose passing and assists over a more aggressive scoring game. Unfortunately that counts against him.

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I disagree with this assessment somewhat. I think his BBIQ is so high that he generally did exactly what he felt he needed to in order to win as much as possible. It just so happened he had an all-world all-time scoring machine at his disposal so more often than not the best decision was to drop the dime. If he were on a team with a different make-up he might have decided he needed to do other things in order to win, and I could easily see him scoring 20+ per game in such a scenario, and still racking up a dozen or more assists per game. I don't think he had some weird need deep in the fiber of his being or whatever to pass the ball above all else. I think he used his smarts to make the best decisions with the ball he could, which at times included scoring it in volume. I see no reason why, given a scenario much like CP3 has had most of his career, Stock couldn't or wouldn't score a lot more than he did.

 

[Deleted member 95]

@LogGrad98 I agree with your assessment. Maybe I wasn't clear. I know John could've been an elite scorer but when your pulling out the measuring stick against other players you have to go off what someone actually accomplished not on what they potentially could've done. We're arguing different things, looks like. Thee's argument was using Stockton's potential to be an elite scorer in his favor against other players.


Tldr: My critique of Thee's argument is pretty simple. You cant use what ifs but you gotta use what actually took place to measure the greatness of a player.

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[Thee Jazz Fan]

@LogGrad98 I agree with your assessment. Maybe I wasn't clear. I know John could've been an elite scorer but when your pulling out the measuring stick against other players you have to go off what someone actually accomplished not on what they potentially could've done. We're arguing different things, looks like. Thee's argument was using Stockton's potential to be an elite scorer in his favor against other players.


Tldr: My critique of Thee's argument is pretty simple. You cant use what ifs but you gotta use what actually took place to measure the greatness of a player.

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My initial arguemet was if Stockton and Malone played with a better roster they would’ve won a chip, and Stockton would’ve gotten the respect he deserves. That lineup was full of a couple decent bench players and scrubs in the starting lineup and bench, scrubs!!!


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