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Just say noah to Noah Vonleh

Elizah Huge

Elizah Huge

Respect All, Fear None
Contributor
2024 Award Winner
Props to you guys trying to convince yourself that Vonleh would be a great pick.

Vonleh had no games out of 30 where he had 20+ points. But this guy is going to be the scorer the Jazz need!

He's a great three point shooter though!

Through his first 13 college games from three; 1-6, not bad a modest 16.6%.

Through his next 13 college games from three; 12-18, a very good 66.6%.

His last 4 college games from three; 3-9, very average 33.3%.

On the year from college a total of 30 games; 16-33 from three.

That's barely a little over 1 three per game and we are convinced he can be a great three point shooter at the NBA level?

Vonleh went a total of 20 games without hitting a three. No! He is a great three point shooter though!

He had a hot stretch of four games where he shot 8-11 from three, which was 1/3 of his total threes on the season.

Take away that stretch of four games and he is 8-22 on the season from three; 36.3%, average, and right around that of, oh wait, A. Gordon.

Alright, he was at least good enough to lead his team to the NCAA Tournament. Wrong.

The NIT Tournament? Try again.

Yeah, but he didn't play enough minutes to be a serious contributor! Vonleh averaged 27 MPG out of a total 40 minutes.

That's 32.4 MPG by the NBA standards and that is the minutes a starter on a team gets.

Okay, enough of the bad about Noah Vonleh and on to the good.

Had the biggest hands at the combine. Very impressive 7'4 1/2 wingspan with a 6'10 height in shoes.

A 37' vertical, which for a big man is surprisingly also impressive.

A great rebounder, at 9 RPG, he lead the Big-10 in total rebounds.

Can be a good shot blocker as well, at 1.4 BPG, which was good enough for 8th in the Big-10.

Big-10 Freshman of the Year and Third-Team all Big 10.

Vonleh's range in my opinion should be from 9-12, but to take him in the top-5 is really pushing it.

Here's to hoping Vonleh's stock continues to rise someone in the top-4 loves him and takes him, pushing one of the top-4 players in the draft down to #5 for the Jazz to pick.

Vonleh is a pure potential pick and I really don't see him blossoming into a star.

The Jazz are guaranteed one of Embiid, Wiggins, Parker, Exum, and Gordon, which is awesome.
 
You have Gordon at #5?
Care to post his shooting stats like you did Vonleh's? In particular his amazing FT%? That's an UNGUARDED shot. You can't even hit 50% of your shots when NO ONE is running at you to try to block or disrupt your shot?
Pitiful!

Gordon would be a pure potential pick.
 
Has OP nitpicked Aaron Gordons shooting this thoroughly? i see .178 from 3 in 18 Pac-12 games.

who are the 8 players you have rated higher?
 
Core4 said:
You have Gordon at #5?
Care to post his shooting stats like you did Vonleh's? In particular his amazing FT%? That's an UNGUARDED shot. You can't even hit 50% of your shots when NO ONE is running at you to try to block or disrupt your shot?
Pitiful!

Gordon would be a pure potential pick.
Click to expand...

The difference is, nobody is saying Gordon is a great shooter like they are with Vonleh.

A. Gordon was the MVP of the McDonald's All American game as well as the U-19 USA Basketball team MVP. A team with Marcus Smart and Jahil Okafor.

The other past winners of that award? LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Tim Duncan and Michael Jordan.

Was a key part in a team that made it to the Elite 8 of the NCAA Tournament.

Pac-12 Freshman of the Year and has the makings to be an elite defender.
 
Tldr the whole thing but I agree I am worrie people are making to much of Vonlehs 3 pt ability like many Did with Derrick Williams sample size


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
White Chocolate said:
Embiid
Wiggins
Parker
Exum
Gordon
Smart
Randle
Saric
Click to expand...

I disagree with your premise, but it's well-stated. I think the same type of argument could be made against any of the picks. I don't think any of us that are in favor of picking Vonleh at #5 are saying Lindsey should do it because Noah is a 3-PT specialist. If that were the case, Jazz should just go with McDermott, arguably the best shooter in NCAA history.

The argument for Noah is that he is already a good 2-way player. He has range out to the three, yet he can also operate in the post. His wing span and mobility has made him a good rebounder and shot blocker. Is he raw? Yes, of course. But he's the same age as Gordon (well, one month older if some want to nitpick). So while Gordon is improving his offense, you could expect Vonleh to make similar strides in aspects of his game, too. The argument for Vonleh is that he will provide an impact on both ends of the court. Right now, we have several players who are either an offensive or defensive liability. And that's the same problem we had with guys like Boozer, Okur and AK.
 
I hear plenty criticism of Vonlehs 49% 3pt shooting (60% in conference)

Can an AG supporter please explain whats up with 17% 3pt shooting in the Pac-12?

I've brought it up multiple times, never has anyone directly responded to it.

Yet i hear his 35% 3pt shooting number cited constantly.
 
Core4 said:
I disagree with your premise, but it's well-stated. I think the same type of argument could be made against any of the picks. I don't think any of us that are in favor of picking Vonleh at #5 are saying Lindsey should do it because Noah is a 3-PT specialist. If that were the case, Jazz should just go with McDermott, arguably the best shooter in NCAA history.

The argument for Noah is that he is already a good 2-way player. He has range out to the three, yet he can also operate in the post. His wing span and mobility has made him a good rebounder and shot blocker. Is he raw? Yes, of course. But he's the same age as Gordon (well, one month older if some want to nitpick). So while Gordon is improving his offense, you could expect Vonleh to make similar strides in aspects of his game, too. The argument for Vonleh is that he will provide an impact on both ends of the court. Right now, we have several players who are either an offensive or defensive liability. And that's the same problem we had with guys like Boozer, Okur and AK.
Click to expand...

You sure? Fire and work ethic goes to Gordon. I think think he'll work at his game more.
 
sahlensguy said:
You sure? Fire and work ethic goes to Gordon. I think think he'll work at his game more.
Click to expand...

Does it? How about the story of Vonleh insisting on going to the gym to workout instead of to Disneyland. Work ethic has NOTHING to do with being vocal. If that were the case, MF'er Boozer (isn't that what he used to yell on the court?) would be a HOF'er.

"A former New England prep star who used to walk a mile to his local YMCA to work out, and used to call Vin Pastore, his AAU coach, sometimes twice a day to open the gym for him, Vonleh has always kept working. "Coaching elite-level guys, everybody has something," Pastore said. "Some guys are great workers, some are great athletes, some are high-, high-character kids. Some are very intelligent. Noah is the one guy I've had in my career that had everything.
"Noah has it all.""
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
I hear plenty criticism of Vonlehs 49% 3pt shooting (60% in conference)

Can an AG supporter please explain whats up with 17% 3pt shooting in the Pac-12?

I've brought it up multiple times, never has anyone directly responded to it.

Yet i hear his 35% 3pt shooting number cited constantly.
Click to expand...


I responded to it in our big, long, too long, of a debate. :) i also remember a couple of others responding to it, but nice try.


Both are nice picks, and both have incredible upside. If A. Gordon shot his FT's well, he'd be in considerations for #1 pick. The way I see it is A. Gordon just makes more sense on our team, would help us improve w/o shipping off, or giving up on our existing talent, and we'd have resources to develop him. Furthermore, this draft is probably our last chance to get a wing w/ all star potential. We tanked hard this year, and still only go the #5 pick. We'll be in the lottery next year, but our pick won't be nearly as high. And, next year is the draft of bigs, not wings. We already have 3 bigs with promise who need developing.
 
Sexual Favors said:
I responded to it in our big, long, too long, of a debate. :) i also remember a couple of others responding to it, but nice try.


Both are nice picks, and both have incredible upside. If A. Gordon shot his FT's well, he'd be in considerations for #1 pick. The way I see it is A. Gordon just makes more sense on our team, would help us improve w/o shipping off, or giving up on our existing talent, and we'd have resources to develop him. Furthermore, this draft is probably our last chance to get a wing w/ all star potential. We tanked hard this year, and still only go the #5 pick. We'll be in the lottery next year, but our pick won't be nearly as high. And, next year is the draft of bigs, not wings. We already have 3 bigs with promise who need developing.
Click to expand...

this is an evasive response to what im asking.

again;

17% from 3 over an 18 game stretch, in-conference... why did that happen?
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
this is an evasive response to what im asking.

again;

17% from 3 over an 18 game stretch, in-conference... why did that happen?
Click to expand...

Because I've already responded to it. A full response, like the one I and others have already given you leads to a ten page debate breaking down the two players shooting during different parts of the year, etc. sorry, not biting. Look up that thread if you want to reread I (and others who made even better cases) have said. Why rehash the same debate?
 
Sexual Favors said:
Because I've already responded to it. A full response, like the one I and others have already given you leads to a ten page debate breaking down the two players shooting during different parts of the year, etc. sorry, not biting. Look up that thread if you want to reread I (and others who made even better cases) have said. Why rehash the same debate?
Click to expand...

what is the explanation? if it takes you ten pages to explain why Aaron Gordon shot 17% from 3 in conference than its probably a ****ty explanation.
 
Sexual Favors said:
I responded to it in our big, long, too long, of a debate. :) i also remember a couple of others responding to it, but nice try.


Both are nice picks, and both have incredible upside. If A. Gordon shot his FT's well, he'd be in considerations for #1 pick. The way I see it is A. Gordon just makes more sense on our team, would help us improve w/o shipping off, or giving up on our existing talent, and we'd have resources to develop him. Furthermore, this draft is probably our last chance to get a wing w/ all star potential. We tanked hard this year, and still only go the #5 pick. We'll be in the lottery next year, but our pick won't be nearly as high. And, next year is the draft of bigs, not wings. We already have 3 bigs with promise who need developing.
Click to expand...

Very doubtful.
As for already having three bigs, that't the Sam Bowie argument (need over BPA). We have a PF who can't defend, another who can't shoot past 10-ft and a big French center who MIGHT develop into a player. NO ONE needs to be shipped off if Vonleh is the pick. Did Marvin cause anyone to lose their job? Kanter and Favors still about 30 mins. Gobert played less, but his mins should come at the expense of Jeremy Evans.

Favors and Kanter - 30 mins each
Gobert and Vonleh - 18 mins each

And those numbers don't take into account injuries, which will up the averages. If there's a logjam after next season....FANTASTIC! That would mean competition has pushed Enes to get off his lazy #@$ and play some defense. Then we can trade a big. SF's are a dime a dozen; it's the easiest position to fill in the NBA.
 
Listen! The difference is nobody is saying A. Gordon is a good shooter unlike you Vonleh supporters.
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
I hear plenty criticism of Vonlehs 49% 3pt shooting (60% in conference)

Can an AG supporter please explain whats up with 17% 3pt shooting in the Pac-12?

I've brought it up multiple times, never has anyone directly responded to it.

Yet i hear his 35% 3pt shooting number cited constantly.
Click to expand...

Vonleh's measurements are freak size and freak athlete, but I don't hear anyone calling him a freak athlete. His sprint, agility, and hops are comparable to Favors, and you could almost compare him to Dwight Howard. How does he stack up in the athleticism depo? If he's a Favors athletically, but with an outside shooting touch and that Millsap outside-in driving ability then the kid is going to be good.

And oh by the way, he's still getting taller.
 
White Chocolate said:
Vonleh had no games out of 30 where he had 20+ points. But this guy is going to be the scorer the Jazz need!
Click to expand...

Go talk to Mark Titus of Grantland about that:

I will need to summon all the self-control I have to avoid using this entire space to gripe about how underused Vonleh was in Tom Crean’s offense at Indiana. I could write about how he was the best low post player in the Big Ten yet he seemed to get the ball on the block only two or three times a game. I could write about how Yogi Ferrell made just enough deep 3s in transition that Indiana didn’t seem to care that he missed two of those same shots for every one he made, and how those possessions could’ve been steered in Vonleh’s direction. I could write about how Stanford Robinson had more Big Ten games with double-digit shot attempts than Vonleh had.

Which makes it all the more remarkable that Vonleh averaged 11.3 points and 9.0 rebounds (best in the Big Ten) last season despite only playing 26.5 minutes and operating in an offense that rarely featured him.
Click to expand...

https://grantland.com/the-triangle/tituss-nba-draft-upside-all-stars/
 
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