Kawhi traded to Toronto

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm Team Kawhi on this. He was hurt. The narrative switching to he just didn't want to play for the Spurs last year, I can't get behind.

I don't know why anybody would think he wouldn't play for the Raptors, unless he was injured.

Yes and no. Uncle Dennis has effed this up badly. He has cost him so much money. If he just says he’s pissed but willing to reconcile they can sign the megamax and get a trade in a year. He was basically not going to play for the team he wanted to for a year anyway, so why not just stick it out a year... maybe they didn’t offer it.

The idea that he’d make up the difference in better marketing deals was always ridiculous and his complete silence through this has only hurt his marketability. When you have Harvard business problems don’t rely on family that did well in junior college to advise you. Just a complete **** show.

I do think his injury is more serious and is not just an injury but possibly a degenerative condition that they may be trying to cover up a bit... part of this is definitely the spurs fault but his team has mismanaged the situation and there are easy things he could have done to make this better.

 

[elan_prodigy]

Wonder if Kawhi will hold this against the Lakers?

 

[TheStormofWar]

Oh boy.

This is going to be some Rony Seikaly-level **** biting them in they ***.

Kawhi can cry all he wants. But if he doesn't show up, he's risking some very heavy disciplinary actions by the league and Toronto or the Spurs if the trade is cancelled. He can't refuse to show up otherwise. I think the Seikaly situation played a lot into the NBA forcing those measures into the CBA.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Kawhi can cry all he wants. But if he doesn't show up, he's risking some very heavy disciplinary actions by the league and Toronto or the Spurs if the trade is cancelled. He can't refuse to show up otherwise. I think the Seikaly situation played a lot into the NBA forcing those measures into the CBA.

I wouldn't put it past Uncle Dennis though... he has already cost Kawhi like 40-80M... what's another $20M

 

[LoPo]

I have a feeling this is what Toronto wants. They know they couldn't win the East with DeRozan and Lowry. But they couldn't trade DeRozan without fan outrage.

If Kawhi refuses Toronto, they could trade him to Philly or LA for value. They will likely get their pick back from SA (top 20 protected) and have a brighter future than paying DeRozan $30+ the next 3 years.

If Toronto turns DeRozan into Danny Green, Covington, Saric and Miami's 2021 1st, they are smart. Or DeRozan into Ingram, Hart and a future LA 1st.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I have a feeling this is what Toronto wants. They know they couldn't win the East with DeRozan and Lowry. But they couldn't trade DeRozan without fan outrage.

If Kawhi refuses Toronto, they could trade him to Philly or LA for value. They will likely get their pick back from SA (top 20 protected) and have a brighter future than paying DeRozan $30+ the next 3 years.

If Toronto turns DeRozan into Danny Green, Covington, Saric and Miami's 2021 1st, they are smart. Or DeRozan into Ingram, Hart and a future LA 1st.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

I don't like the idea of trading stars for non stars. This is a star driven league, so it seems like a setback.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

So I forgot the Spurs had Rudy Gay too... Derozan, Aldridge, Rudy Gay... give SA all the midrange contested twos. All. of. them.

 

[MDAV28]

Yes and no. Uncle Dennis has effed this up badly. He has cost him so much money. If he just says he’s pissed but willing to reconcile they can sign the megamax and get a trade in a year. He was basically not going to play for the team he wanted to for a year anyway, so why not just stick it out a year... maybe they didn’t offer it.

The idea that he’d make up the difference in better marketing deals was always ridiculous and his complete silence through this has only hurt his marketability. When you have Harvard business problems don’t rely on family that did well in junior college to advise you. Just a complete **** show.

I do think his injury is more serious and is not just an injury but possibly a degenerative condition that they may be trying to cover up a bit... part of this is definitely the spurs fault but his team has mismanaged the situation and there are easy things he could have done to make this better.

The Spurs would be under no obligation trade him after a year. They'd have him locked in for 4 more, that's a risk I could see Kawhi's camp not accepting. Also, he is obviously extremely upset with how his injury was handled, so I could see him figuring that he'd be throwing away a year of his prime career for an organization he doesn't have a good relationship with. His relationship was severed so badly, he gave up A LOT of money which I think speaks to how much he wanted out.

Again, I don't really fault anybody for keeping things internal. I understand your point about how that may effect his image and how people will speculate with no word from his camp. But a lot of this mess started with teammates and staff speaking out about him to the media. I appreciate the side that doesn't do that.

 

[MDAV28]

Kawhi can cry all he wants. But if he doesn't show up, he's risking some very heavy disciplinary actions by the league and Toronto or the Spurs if the trade is cancelled. He can't refuse to show up otherwise. I think the Seikaly situation played a lot into the NBA forcing those measures into the CBA.

Looks like that was tweeted when they were in talks, not after the decision was final. They wanted to a trade to LA obviously.

Kawhi, if healthy, is going to play.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

The Spurs were asking for 2 starters and 3 x 1st round picks. Instead they settled for one 2nd tier all star, a young that comes off the bench, and an unlikely 1st round pick AND the threw in one of their perennial fan favorites Danny Green. Seems like the Spurs sold themselves VERY short here. Demar is a very good player and they did dump a headcase, but a headcase that is easily a top 4 player in the league. A league dominated by top tier players.

If Kawhi opts not to play for the Raptors, do the Raptors now flip Kawhi to another team (Lakers)? Do the Raptors instead pursue the legal route and bottom out?

 

[TheStormofWar]

I wouldn't put it past Uncle Dennis though... he has already cost Kawhi like 40-80M... what's another $20M

Try suspension without pay and maybe fines on top of that. He also opens himself up for potential Breach of Contract suits from Toronto, the League, or the Spurs. Uncle Dennis isn't that stupid.

 

[campaignist]

I really think Derozan is fool's gold, and I hate the LMA/Demar fit. I think losing Danny Green really hurts too. It will still help them though, but their ceiling is lower.

 

[TheStormofWar]

The Spurs were asking for 2 starters and 3 x 1st round picks. Instead they settled for one 2nd tier all star, a young that comes off the bench, and an unlikely 1st round pick AND the threw in one of their perennial fan favorites Danny Green. Seems like the Spurs sold themselves VERY short here. Demar is a very good player and they did dump a headcase, but a headcase that is easily a top 4 player in the league. A league dominated by top tier players.

If Kawhi opts not to play for the Raptors, do the Raptors now flip Kawhi to another team (Lakers)? Do the Raptors instead pursue the legal route and bottom out?

Figure that a 2nd tier All-star with worth a player and few picks and the fact that, assuming Kawhi plays, Toronto isn't finishing any lower than 21 in the draft, then the Spurs got some value here.

 

[campaignist]

I'm kind of curious if this forces Utah to respond or just stay the course. I know we're damn good and not winning a 'chip this year, but the West got so dramatically tougher now.

I mean, maybe? They really don't overreact like the rest of the league, and while the stay the course plan was boring and I think underselling the team, it's savvy for the current landscape. 2020-2022 should be our big window.

 

[TheStormofWar]

I mean, maybe? They really don't overreact like the rest of the league, and while the stay the course plan was boring and I think underselling the team, it's savvy for the current landscape. 2020-2022 should be our big window.

Agreed. DL won't do anything lightly. But Spurs definitely look to be improved over last year basically. As well as the Lakers, Nugs, Pels, and OKC (once Melo is out). Houston regressed some, but still. Utah running it back with tweaks isn't a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination, but the West keeps getting brutal. I don't see a trade though that helps us immediately without sacrificing depth.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

If I were Toronto, I’d have a sit down with Leonard and tell him that if he toe’s the company line and help win a ton of games, then I’d do what I could to trade him at the deadline to the Lakers if at all possible. But the Lakers would have to think Leonard might be willing to resign with Toronto.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The Spurs were asking for 2 starters and 3 x 1st round picks. Instead they settled for one 2nd tier all star, a young that comes off the bench, and an unlikely 1st round pick AND the threw in one of their perennial fan favorites Danny Green. Seems like the Spurs sold themselves VERY short here. Demar is a very good player and they did dump a headcase, but a headcase that is easily a top 4 player in the league. A league dominated by top tier players.

If Kawhi opts not to play for the Raptors, do the Raptors now flip Kawhi to another team (Lakers)? Do the Raptors instead pursue the legal route and bottom out?

Exactly... they might win 50 games... could also see them right around 45... but their ceiling is low... they are playing for right now and hav very little upside on their roster.

They didn’t offload bad money in mills and pau and they didn’t get the raps best prospect... and that pick is kinda garbage.

 

[MVP]

I think it sucks for the Raptors. They just lost the face of their franchise and the coach of the year. They overreacted to getting swept by the King- who just moved to LA (where Kawhi is headed next summer).

You know nothing about Raptors. Casey sucked - he was 0-10 vs Cavs in his last 10 playoff games vs them, he was absolute disaster as the playoff coach and needed to be sacked. DeRozan while loyal and hard worker was not the player to take team on his back during playoffs. If Leonard is healthy and will play with 100% effort - Raptors are winning the East, he is an All Star and may be in MVP discussion. Winning cures everything. Raptors will be in position to offer 50 mil more on his next contract than if he would go to any other team. Not sure Lakers with ageing Lebron will be such an attractive option.
I would give it a year and see how this unfolds, in anyway you gotta give it to Masai, dude has huge balls to pull trade like that.

 

[oneye]

I hope Toronto can sway Kawhi......cause if he just leaves next offseason we just have another All-Star out west.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Agreed. DL won't do anything lightly. But Spurs definitely look to be improved over last year basically. As well as the Lakers, Nugs, Pels, and OKC (once Melo is out). Houston regressed some, but still. Utah running it back with tweaks isn't a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination, but the West keeps getting brutal. I don't see a trade though that helps us immediately without sacrificing depth.

New players and roster turnover doesn’t mean they improved.

I think the continuity and internal growth we have should help us the first half of the year. Houston took a step back and GS may be a year away from losing KD (or Klay or Green). Our window is peaking open and I love how we approached the offseason. If someone becomes available we have expiring contracts, 1sts, and interesting young guys (Exum, Allen) to try and make something work.

I think we will watch what happens with Tobias Harris and Otto Porter to start the season... those are guys that could be available this season on the cheap if their teams struggle. I could also see the Jimmy Butler thing not working out and then moving him.

Patience will pay... if the Rubio, Rudy, Favs lineup continued to suck like it did to start the season I would have said it was time to move on... they figured it out... it’s worth another year of evaluation.