Keillor and MeToo

[Stars Fan]

I think close to 80% of the women I know have been victimized by men at some point in their lives. Way, way more common than men know.

If you want the real truth, sit down with the females you know and have a frank conversation. It’s eye opening. Most women never tell a soul. Your grandmas, your aunts, your sisters, cousins, daughters, classmates, co-workers. It’s shocking when you realize how much you didn’t know.

Somebody who seems to be the nicest man in the world can be a sexual predator when no one else is around to witness it.

This really hits home. I have daughters that were victimized as children. I have a half brother that came from rape.

The MeToo movement hasn’t gone overboard. I just think most men have lived sheltered lives where they’ve never realized how pervasive the sexual victimization of women is in our society.

Sorry to hear about your daughters and mom. #MeToo can be helpful to some, and triggering for others. I hope your family is coping well.

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[Stars Fan]

There's a lot more info here than what I had heard. In any case, if it's not true, it doesn't change my argument. I still think she was part of a plot to sabotage Kavanaugh because of her inability to give evidence that corroborated her testimony.

None are so blind as those who refuse to see.

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[JazzGal]

In other words, we all need to be better educated about this issue. What should we consider sexual harassment? Tell us in your own words. I'd like to know.

Standard definition of sexual harassment: behavior characterized by the making of unwelcome and inappropriate sexual remarks or physical advances in a workplace or other professional or social situation.

One of the biggest disconnects between men and women is that many men think commenting on a woman's body (especially of someone they do not know well) is a compliment to that woman, while that woman likely feels threatened and demeaned. And because men can find exceptions to this (there are always some women who like strangers to comment on their physical attributes), they believe that this negates their responsibility to figure out if a particular woman is going to like it or not. The rule should be: if you don't know the woman well enough to know with complete certainty that she will welcome your touches and your comments and your jokes, then don't do it. There is no reason that a man cannot keep his thoughts to himself when he finds a woman attractive.

 

[Stars Fan]

This is what DM45 said regarding the U of U coed murder.

"After the Memphis game, I heard about that and it's just tough. I have a little sister and for that to happen and for a mother to lose her child, her daughter especially in that way," Mitchell said of McCluskey. "Women nowadays have it so tough. A lot of times men are the aggressor and women are defenseless and it's so sad to see things like that happening.

"The guy was harassing her for two straight weeks and eventually it caught up to her," he continued. "I think we need to offer more help in those type of situations because the track record was there from the beginning until the end and for women to be scared to say something is not something we should be promoting in this country or in this world."

This is why we need to start taking women seriously when they DO come forward. By pushing the self serving notion that women commonly make false accusations, we discourage women speaking up when they are harassed. I don't think I'll ever convince EM, but this discussion may persuade others to take the political blinders off and buy into making #MeToo a cultural change.

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[Getting Traded]

I just read a couple things I hadn't before. I NEVER said all women make false accusations. I said I doubted Ford because of the political motivations and implications, but people here just want to hear what they want to hear. And so far as libido, there have been books and studies about it -- the Kinsey Report for one, and a good coffee table book from the 70s, Everything You Wanted to Know About Sex, and then there's just common sense and our own experiences. Men have their highest libido in their teens and 20s, women for various reasons hit their peak later. I noticed myself that most women in their 50s usually have a higher libido than men of that age. But men are more excited by the visual than men, that's just common knowledge, and probably part of why men are more aggressive and engage in sexual harassment.

Talk about people piling on and putting words in my mouth. Calling me a fool and stupid, etc. I stick by what I have said and much of what you have attributed to me is false. Just read my posts.

 

[gandalfe]

I just read a couple things I hadn't before. I NEVER said all women make false accusations. I said I doubted Ford because of the political motivations and implications, but people here just want to hear what they want to hear. And so far as libido, there have been books and studies about it -- the Kinsey Report for one, and a good coffee table book from the 70s, Everything You Wanted to Know About Sex, and then there's just common sense and our own experiences. Men have their highest libido in their teens and 20s, women for various reasons hit their peak later. I noticed myself that most women in their 50s usually have a higher libido than men of that age. But men are more excited by the visual than men, that's just common knowledge, and probably part of why men are more aggressive and engage in sexual harassment.

Talk about people piling on and putting words in my mouth. Calling me a fool and stupid, etc. I stick by what I have said and much of what you have attributed to me is false. Just read my posts.

Who said you said that all women make false accusations? Please find and quote it.

Way to stay cutting edge, with your 70 year old research! (The Kinsey Reports came out in '48 and '53.)

And, btw, kudos for subtly bragging on all your sexual conquests.

 

[Getting Traded]

Who said you said that all women make false accusations? Please find and quote it.

Way to stay cutting edge, with your 70 year old research! (The Kinsey Reports came out in '48 and '53.)

And, btw, kudos for subtly bragging on all your sexual conquests.

I'm hardly bragging, just reporting my observations. Well, people seem to jump to that conclusion about my views of sexual harassment just because I am skeptical of Ford and defended Garrison Keillor -- I am hardly the only person who feels this way, but the gang of anti-Eenie-Meenie don't agree and engage in all kinds of personal attacks. I see no reason why Kinsey is obsolete though more recent consideration shows some prejudice from the male perspective. Here's an article that discusses more recent studies:

https://blog.ted.com/6-studies-that-offer-fascinating-conclusions-about-human-sexuality/

 

[gandalfe]

I'm hardly bragging, just reporting my observations. Well, people seem to jump to that conclusion about my views of sexual harassment just because I am skeptical of Ford and defended Garrison Keillor -- I am hardly the only person who feels this way, but the gang of anti-Eenie-Meenie don't agree and engage in all kinds of personal attacks. I see no reason why Kinsey is obsolete though more recent consideration shows some prejudice from the male perspective. Here's an article that discusses more recent studies:

https://blog.ted.com/6-studies-that-offer-fascinating-conclusions-about-human-sexuality/

4 of those studies don't talk about desire disparity at all, at least from the precis that's given. The 5th does not bolster your argument at all:

The researchers found that “the evidence for an inborn disparity in sexual motivation is debatable,” the Times Magazine piece reports. The study “suggests that the very statistics evolutionary psychologists use to prove innate difference — like number of sexual partners or rates of masturbation — are heavily influenced by culture. All scientists really know is that the disparity in desire exists, at least after a relationship has lasted a while.” Women’s desire does decrease, but not as a matter of course—as a result of monogamy in particular.

 

[Getting Traded]

4 of those studies don't talk about desire disparity at all, at least from the precis that's given. The 5th does not bolster your argument at all:

I don't know what you are arguing about -- that men don't have a stronger libido in the teens and 20s ... I don't know how old you are, but I've been through the stages and know from experience, and know from the experience of other guys my age.

I also know from experience about women, who once they go through the change have a resurgence in sexual desire because of the freedom from pregnancy. I don't know if there are studies on that, though.

So, what's the point? Is sexual harassment a cultural phenomena? Perhaps, it is. I can't claim one way or the other. I do know that it is wrong, and I think that is the point of all this. I'm not sure though that coming out publicly and accusing someone about something that happened 30 years ago is the way to solve the problem. Coming out and saying they were harassed, though, without accusing a particular person, is something else, and not what I oppose, unless you have a monster like Cosby who has been raping (not harassing) people. That is something different and people like him need to be idenitified.