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KO

jom2003 said:
Actually Jokic has had a defensive box plus minus of over 4(which leads the league) for three straight seasons. Yes, Jokic is in a different world on offense. But for him to win 2 straight MVPs PLUS a championship, it's not a matter of his offense compensating for his defense, but Denver's perfect management of scheme/personnel that covers his defensive shortcomings to a level we've never seen before.

Just watch Houston copying Denver’s scheme with Sengun this season, the deployment of versatile forwards like Jabari Parker/Tate/Eason help skyrocketed Sengun’s defensive box plus minus from 0 to 2.5.
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Well there ya go.
Jokic miles better on offense and also much better on defense

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NAOS_pt2 said:
sorta.
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I didn't ask if I did misuse a stat (if I did it wasn't intentional and I'm unaware) I asked how I misused it.

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fishonjazz said:
How did I misuse a stat?

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For one thing, go look at every player on the Jazz's plus/minus. Secondly, +/- does not tell you if a guy makes the team better or worse, at least not completely. Yes, if there is something outlier in either direction, that's a sign. You can't take Walker/KO and compare their +/- and draw any conclusion whatsoever.
 
fishonjazz said:
I didn't ask if I did misuse a stat (if I did it wasn't intentional and I'm unaware) I asked how I misused it.

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my bad.

One of the ways we use stats is by drawing conclusions from them. I think you misused the +/- stat by drawing an overly simplified conclusion from it.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
For one thing, go look at every player on the Jazz's plus/minus. Secondly, +/- does not tell you if a guy makes the team better or worse, at least not completely. Yes, if there is something outlier in either direction, that's a sign. You can't take Walker/KO and compare their +/- and draw any conclusion whatsoever.
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Seems like I used it correctly according to your post


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NAOS_pt2 said:
my bad.

One of the ways we use stats is by drawing conclusions from them. I think you misused the +/- stat by drawing an overly simplified conclusion from it.
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I dont recall making a conclusion.

I did say that it seems like the team would play better with KO on the court and that it seems like the opposite is happening.

Still seems that way to me.

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I'm actually not a big fan of KO (mostly on defense), but I definitely understand how valuable he is to this team.

For me I want to know what the plan is for how soon we are trying to be competitive and what type of a contract extension KO is looking for. If there were younger/better options for a front court player who can pass, I would want to go for those options, but looking at the list of those type of guys I'm not sure there are any realistic options.

So I guess I would keep KO for now, unless we go full tank, but I'll keep hoping for a better option to become available at some point.
 
fishonjazz said:
I dont recall making a conclusion.

I did say that it seems like the team would play better with KO on the court and that it seems like the opposite is happening.

Still seems that way to me.

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those seem like conclusions to me. You may be trying to soften them with your use of language here, but I won't split those kind of hairs.

That 3-player lineup data should give you pause. As should all the injuries and different lineup experiments.
 
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