Let's Discuss Socialism

[Bucknutz]

I know people have a perception that I lean conservative. I believe in a lot of social programs that should be provided by the government.

Here is a list:
1. Health Care - German model

Health care in Germany: Learn More – The German healthcare system - InformedHealth.org - NCBI Bookshelf

Anything that is desired and not required is not covered.

2. Federal Government funded college education market place. A place where anyone 16 and older can select from a market place of educators (who get the $$$ directly from the government for teaching). Educators get to set their rate, so there is competition. Government sets the requirements for degrees, class structure and such. College is changing rapidly and major sports with NIL now are not really college sports; siding more development leagues.

3. Social security mixed with the private market.

4. UBI - Technology is expanding rapidly and I’m a part of this. With the software we built and we will be continuing to build, it has cut out about 6 positions, saving us $1000’s a month. It will be even more efficient soon which can keep our business running smoothly on a skeleton crew. This is happening every and will explode when others start to utilize AI.

“If you really want to creat jobs, then by all means give these men spoons, not shovels.” My favorite Milton Friedman quote. This is what I see happening with technology, we are replacing shovels with heavy equipment. This will result in less entry level jobs, where many people learn basic skills. This will require help for these people to get started in their careers. Progressive amounts given by individual earnings. Additional help with each child dependent.

5. Infrastructure - Housing, Water, Air, Internet, roads, all needing upgrades for the future.

6. Military - Strongest, most technologically advanced

7. This is the biggest thing. If we Americans want this help, we close the borders. We can never support the people here if we are letting multiple States populations in every year. We will never keep up. Close the borders, improve the lives here, then expand the help.

Things are changing and advancing and we as a country need to outpace it.

 

[Safetydan]

That is a distinction without a difference unless you are advocating for all means of production to be owned by publicly traded corporations with shareholder meetings where the shareholders get to vote on things. I doubt that is what you meant.

With Giovanni Gentile's flavor of socialism, the workers are all unionized. The labor unions are organized into trade sectors, and the union has a voice in management of all companies in their trade sector. As a hypothetical example of how it would work: workers at Ford, GM, and Chrysler would all belong to United Auto Workers by mandate. The UAW would then manage Ford, GM, and Chrysler. The UAW would decide how many of each car would be made, how much to sell them for, how much workers would be paid, etc., and all of that would be decided by democratic vote of the UAW union members. The companies themselves can be privately owned, or publicly traded corporations, but the employees have direct input and receive proceeds from the collective labor of their trade sector.

I posted my views. Clearly a distinction exists between state-owned MOP and worker-owned co-ops.

Trying to denigrate my views by conflating them with some Fascist is bad-faith. Fascists trying to co-opt popular socialist principles to get the working class on their side to oppress some outside group is obviously not socialism. Go away.

 

[Rubashov]

Great ****ing post.

Yeah, the rights of workers enshrined in law would benefit society greatly. Unions themselves being regulated from corruption would also be great.

I just make winning plays

edit keep your love hearts to yourself cabbage creep

also

Lenin loathed Democratic Socialism he said it devolves socialism to trade union politics, which I thought was hilarious 25 years ago while i was reading his works.

 

[Rubashov]

****

 

[Safetydan]

I just make winning plays

edit keep your love hearts to yourself cabbage creep

also

Lenin loathed Democratic Socialism he said it devolves socialism to trade union politics, which I thought was hilarious 25 years ago while i was reading his works.

I'm out here extending olive branches to breach our divide and you keep throwing it away as if its just cabbage.

Cabbage: the proletariat's caviar.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Trying to denigrate my views by conflating them with some Fascist trying to co-opt popular socialist principles to get the working class on their side to oppress some outside group...

Regardless of how comfortable you are with the label, your views are classically fascist.

 

[fishonjazz]

I know people have a perception that I lean conservative. I believe in a lot of social programs that should be provided by the government.

Here is a list:
1. Health Care - German model

Health care in Germany: Learn More – The German healthcare system - InformedHealth.org - NCBI Bookshelf

Anything that is desired and not required is not covered.

2. Federal Government funded college education market place. A place where anyone 16 and older can select from a market place of educators (who get the $$$ directly from the government for teaching). Educators get to set their rate, so there is competition. Government sets the requirements for degrees, class structure and such. College is changing rapidly and major sports with NIL now are not really college sports; siding more development leagues.

3. Social security mixed with the private market.

4. UBI - Technology is expanding rapidly and I’m a part of this. With the software we built and we will be continuing to build, it has cut out about 6 positions, saving us $1000’s a month. It will be even more efficient soon which can keep our business running smoothly on a skeleton crew. This is happening every and will explode when others start to utilize AI.

“If you really want to creat jobs, then by all means give these men spoons, not shovels.” My favorite Milton Friedman quote. This is what I see happening with technology, we are replacing shovels with heavy equipment. This will result in less entry level jobs, where many people learn basic skills. This will require help for these people to get started in their careers. Progressive amounts given by individual earnings. Additional help with each child dependent.

5. Infrastructure - Housing, Water, Air, Internet, roads, all needing upgrades for the future.

6. Military - Strongest, most technologically advanced

7. This is the biggest thing. If we Americans want this help, we close the borders. We can never support the people here if we are letting multiple States populations in every year. We will never keep up. Close the borders, improve the lives here, then expand the help.

Things are changing and advancing and we as a country need to outpace it.

Great post

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk

 

[Rubashov]

I'm out here extending olive branches to breach our divide and you keep throwing it away as if its just cabbage.

Cabbage: the proletariat's caviar.

I prefer caviar, the bourgeoisie cabbage.

 

[Safetydan]

Regardless of how comfortable you are with the label, your views are classically fascist.

A convenient lie to tell yourself at night while wrapped in your status quo baby blanket. Enjoy falling asleep as the world devolves into real fascism. Weak.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

A convenient lie to tell yourself at night while wrapped in your status quo baby blanket. Enjoy falling asleep as the world devolves into real fascism. Weak.

You sleep well too with your bank account, personal property, etc.,, in our world where capitalism has won, where socialism has been so vanquished that most don't even have the understanding to talk about it.

P.S. - I am quite enjoying watching a proto-fascist and a proto-tankie trying to find common ideological ground.

 

[Safetydan]

FDR, The GOAT

 

[LogGrad98]

Great post from @Bucknutz above. A couple points.

1. Health Care - German model
Health care in Germany: Learn More – The German health care system - InformedHealth.org - NCBI Bookshelf
Anything that is desired and not required is not covered.

This is where I lived with my family for a year or so, granted not a lot of time, but we encountered multiple health issues that brought the effectiveness of their system into stark relief against the utter **** of our own. My wife had a 20-year running bad diagnosis corrected which dramatically improved her quality of life. Our medication was suddenly reasonably-priced, thanks to the US for subsidizing the rest of the world since we refuse to regular medications necessary for life and qualify of life, such as my son'd epilepsy med which in the US were several hundred $$ per month and in germany all-in less than $50 per month, etc. And we calculated that year against the previous 2 years we had experienced in America and even with the higher tax rates, we were thousands ahead due to nearly no out-of-pocket expenses, which is what kills most Americans and drives many to bankruptcy here. The spouting off about increased taxes to pay for universal healthcare is all panic-mongering ********, if the system is built right. Germany did it right.

3. Social security mixed with the private market.

This has to be carefully constructed. Germany has a similar system, where everyone buys into the social pension system, but if you are over a given income range you can reroute some of that to private investments. You are, of course, simply free to invest all you want as well, nothing stopping that. But they do not have 401k and IRAs and the like since their social pension system is so robust. I can get behind this idea, but first we need one more thing all developed nations, almost literally except ONLY us have....TAXATION TRANSPARENCY.

Most of the developed world do not know what a tax return is. Except usually the mega-rich and maybe small business owners to a degree, the vast majority of, say Germans, do not file a tax return at all. The government sends you a tax statement on what was collected. You review it, if there are mistakes or specific exceptions you want to claim then you can file an amendment, but 98% of the time the statement is just correct. And so if it is correct, next you have to....DO NOTHING. That's it. Tax season is over. Unlike here where we pile all kinds of **** up and smokescreens and fake roadblocks to support a multi-billion-dollar industry for the sole purpose of....EXISTIING. That's it. We pay billions each year, oh yeah and millions if not billions in penalties to the IRS when we **** it up too, for the privilege of letting the tax return industry exist. That's it. The government already has exactly the info it needs, and the capability and means, to do exactly what Germany and literally EVERY other developed nation does right now.

For an example, I got hit up by the state of Utah for some thing I left out of my tax return 6 years ago. It turns out it was a statement for an IRA I had transferred to a roll-over account, but I had failed to add it to my tax return since it got lost because the company changed hands during that time. I went back and forth for MONTHS and finally, guess what, the guy on the other side, SENT ME A COPY OF THE FORM and I added it to my return, and resubmitted it, and then got PENALIZED $700 for the "mistake" when he HAD THE ****ING INFO ALL THE GODDAMN TIME!! Seriously, what the ****? You know what the net change was to my return at that point? Utah owed me $35 more than they did originally. But I owed them $700 in penalties. In a civilized developed country they would have just amended it and sent me a ****ing check. **** the way we do taxes, the worst in the world.

So let's fix that before we add another burden of keeping track of tax implications for mixed social retirement vehicles that will undoubtedly end up in a new way to garner millions in penalties and make more tax accountants rich on the backs of people who SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO PAY FOR IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!

But it will never change. Briber....uh lobbying is a powerful motivator for government to give big business whatever they want after all.