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Lets Hear It For The Second Unit

jazzrule said:
Found this in the SLC Dunk. Good stuff.
•A quick trip to 82games.com tells us that the Watson-Price-Miles-Elson-Fesenko lineup isn't outstanding. However, you don't have to be outstanding to get back into the game. You just have to be better than the guys you are matched up against. And they have been. Check it: the Jazz are a net +23.3 points with Ceejay on the floor; +17.8 with Fes; +8.7 with 'Cisco; +4.3 with Ronnie; and +7.4 with the Earl of Watts on the floor, independently. Would it shock you to know that these are the BEST net values for on the court / off the court for the whole team. Yes, the top 5 guys are the same 5 guys who help us get back into games. It's not rocket science. Or at least, when you attempt to apply rocket science things don't immediately break down (if you put it together in excel, that line up is still supposed to suck, but they do not.)

•You're going to have to scroll down to the #16th 5 man unit in the second chart here to see this group. You know what's cool? They get 68.5% of the potential rebounds that are available when they are on the floor. (2nd only to a line up of Watson-Miles-Evans-Kirilenko-Fesenko that gets 69.0% of all boards) This lineup also manages to be a +15.0% in turn overs. Not too shabby. This group isn't breaking any scoring records, but they are doing what they have to do to help us get in position to win games. My hat is off to them.
Click to expand...
That analysis was probably done on November 21 data. Now you only have to scroll to the #4th 5-man unit (based on minutes). In terms of +/- per minute, the following is the order (from best to worst, among the top 20 most-played lineups):

*Williams-Bell-Miles-Millsap-Fesenko 1.50 [The lineup that I'd like to see more of most, perhaps with AK swapping in for Bell]
*Watson-Williams-Miles-Millsap-Jefferson 1.06
*Williams-Price-Miles-Millsap-Elson 0.85
*Williams-Miles-Kirilenko-Millsap-Jefferson 0.82 [the most effective lineup among the core rotation IMHO]
*Watson-Price-Miles-Elson-Fesenko 0.63 [the much adulated 2nd unit]
*Watson-Miles-Evans-Kirilenko-Fesenko 0.63
*Williams-Bell-Miles-Millsap-Elson 0.62
*Williams-Bell-Miles-Jefferson-Elson 0.57
*Williams-Price-Miles-Millsap-Jefferson 0.47
*Watson-Price-Hayward-Evans-Elson 0.37
*Watson-Price-Miles-Kirilenko-Jefferson 0.34

*Williams-Hayward-Kirilenko-Millsap-Jefferson 0.00
*Williams-Bell-Kirilenko-Millsap-Jefferson -0.07 [The starting lineup, with a NEGATIVE +/-]
*Watson-Price-Miles-Millsap-Fesenko -0.15
*Watson-Price-Miles-Kirilenko-Elson -0.20
*Williams-Bell-Miles-Millsap-Jefferson -0.46
*Williams-Miles-Hayward-Millsap-Jefferson -0.51
*Williams-Bell-Miles-Kirilenko-Jefferson -0.64
*Williams-Bell-Hayward-Millsap-Jefferson -0.65
*Williams-Price-Kirilenko-Millsap-Jefferson -1.01
https://www.82games.com/1011/1011UTA2.HTM


Fesenko has slipped in "Simple Rating" below Elson, probably because KF's scoring has been nearly nonexistent. He still has the 2nd best on-court/off-court value on the team, bested only by CJ, who has seemed to figure things out a bit.
https://www.82games.com/1011/1011UTA.HTM
 
The main thing that has shocked me watching games is the improvement of Ronnie Price with the move to 2. I think this has a lot to do with his athletic ability being greater than his ball management, but also because most second team SG's are not good enough to really take advantage of what would likely be a mismatch normally.

This, along with Watson being absolutely brilliant, Miles at least showing flashes of his potential, and Fes and Elson playing scrappy ball makes for a damn good second unit, one that does not make stupid mistakes, and gets a shocking number of very easy baskets.
 
I feel really happy for Ronnie Price. He's worked his *** off since he joined the Jazz, and he's finally found his niche. Go Ronnie Price.
 
I'll give some credit to Phil Johnson as well. Jazz used the two guard attack before sometime in 2004 I think, when they had Arroyo. Contrary to what haters believe of Sloan's system, it is quite flexible. And the key here is when you execute the system, the whole is usually better than the sum of its parts. That's the beauty of it.And that's what made me a Jazz fan in the first place.

Another underrated aspect is the intangibles that adding veterans like Elson and Watson bring to the team. The best teams in the league have a bunch of veterans on them. We did'nt have that luxury last few years.

Of course all said and done we are still just a couple of losses away from getting more unsolicited coaching 101 lessons from InGamestrategy. He is on a sabbatical right now biding his time.
 
vj_74 said:
I'll give some credit to Phil Johnson as well. Jazz used the two guard attack before sometime in 2004 I think, when they had Arroyo.
Click to expand...
Sloan has long used the two-PG lineup -- as far back as stretches of Stockton-Eisley as I can remember. Or some combination of Arroyo/Lopez/MoWilliams. Or the rather maligned Fisher-Deron combo.
 
What's strange is that individually, the stats of the second unit are, on paper, mediocre to average. The bench offense revolves around CJ's 11ppg but on what seems like streaky 40% shooting; the other four (Watson/Price/Elson/Fes) each score 3-4ppg. Apart from Miles (23mpg), each averages about only 10-12 minutes. But, it all comes together. That the whole is greater than the sum of its parts really does ring true with the second unit.

With regard to Okur's return, Fes and Elson average a combined 20 minutes. If the expectation is Okur will play at least 20, apart from shaving a few minutes from each of Al and Sap, the only recourse seems to be that one of Elson or Fes will join Hayward and Evans in garbage time only play.
 
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