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Locke's Tone: Tank on The Horizon?

LoPo said:
I don't think you set out to tank, but if the opportunity presents itself, then you tank. GS and SA didn't start the season setting to tank. They had Robinson and Elliott or Steph, Klay and Draymond, then ran into injuries, bad luck, whatever. At that point, then decided to shelve the better players and play the youth which inevitably lost a ton.
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The Warriors tanking really didn't play a huge role in their bounce back, literally 0 players in their playoff rotation were guys they drafted with early picks...
 
The model for a team to rebuild is the model that New Orleans used. They traded AD and got a haul for him. Then they bided their time and traded Jrue when he brought back a haul. Now they're sitting pretty, despite the fact that they've gotten nothing from Zion, basically gave up Lonzo Ball for free and have gotten very little from Jaxson Hayes, NAW and Kira Lewis.

Jazz need to go for the double-haul.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
The model for a team to rebuild is the model that New Orleans used. They traded AD and got a haul for him. Then they bided their time and traded Jrue when he brought back a haul. Now they're sitting pretty, despite the fact that they've gotten nothing from Zion and basically gave up Lonzo Ball for free.

Jazz need to go for the double-haul.
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I mean realistically you just need to hit on a star once and it changes the whole trajectory of your franchise. We've seen it with Luka in Dallas, Ja in Memphis, Trae in Atlanta,
 
YoungJefe said:
I mean realistically you just need to hit on a star once and it changes the whole trajectory of your franchise. We've seen it with Luka in Dallas, Ja in Memphis, Trae in Atlanta,
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A team ultimately needs to have three stars to go all the way. A small-market team needs to draft at least two of them and then have enough assets left over to trade for a third. Even better if the SM team can draft all three like the Warriors did and the Thunder did originally.

This is why the Jazz really couldn't afford to lose Gordon Hayward the way they did. That basically killed this iteration of the Jazz.
 
YoungJefe said:
The Warriors tanking really didn't play a huge role in their bounce back, literally 0 players in their playoff rotation were guys they drafted with early picks...
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The Golden State Warriors don't win their first title without Harrison Barnes. They clearly tanked hard for Harrison Barnes which actually came at our expense. They were a middle 3rd team then sat everybody down the stretch so they could get the #7 pick. I'm pretty sure if they would have ended up with the #8 pick, it would have gone to us.
 
LoPo said:
The Golden State Warriors don't win their first title without Harrison Barnes. They clearly tanked hard for Harrison Barnes which actually came at our expense. They were a middle 3rd team then sat everybody down the stretch so they could get the #7 pick. I'm pretty sure if they would have ended up with the #8 pick, it would have gone to us.
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Not only that... they traded a healthy Monta Ellis for an injured Bogut to further the depths of their suckiness that year... Bogut was critical... not a full tank move but not a move teams that were trying to win that year would have made.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
tobias doesn't move the needle. if he's better than bogey, it's only marginal and he just isn't a difference maker.
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He's better at different things that could help the team. Bogey is just a huge negative as a passer. I think Harris would have fit Utah really well in their passing days, maybe not as much anymore.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Not only that... they traded a healthy Monta Ellis for an injured Bogut to further the depths of their suckiness that year... Bogut was critical... not a full tank move but not a move teams that were trying to win that year would have made.
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Yep. What they did was so incredibly smart and paid off huge the next few seasons.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Not only that... they traded a healthy Monta Ellis for an injured Bogut to further the depths of their suckiness that year... Bogut was critical... not a full tank move but not a move teams that were trying to win that year would have made.
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Wow Imagine if GSW decided to trade Curry instead of Ellis
There was some debate about that
Is Ellis still even in league?
 
slc said:
Wow Imagine if GSW decided to trade Curry instead of Ellis
There was some debate about that
Is Ellis still even in league?
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What league? I'm sure he still hits up the drew league or something.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
A team ultimately needs to have three stars to go all the way. A small-market team needs to draft at least two of them and then have enough assets left over to trade for a third. Even better if the SM team can draft all three like the Warriors did and the Thunder did originally.

This is why the Jazz really couldn't afford to lose Gordon Hayward the way they did. That basically killed this iteration of the Jazz.
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I think it's more nuanced than that. You don't need 3 stars.

Teams just don't have big windows to win anymore unless you are a team with a huge budget who drafted well. Utah made valiant efforts but injuries ****ed them hard every year. They wasted assets on guys like Tony Bradley and Udoka and wasted assets to get off players like Favors and Davis.

The Jazz had the core pieces to win. Hell even with all their **** ups they could have still won if not for injuries. There is no one move that killed this team.

If they would have used their assets better they could probably do a more meaningful retool, but ultimately ownership wouldn't be able to afford the team long term most likely if they did everything right and injuries would have still prevented them from winning a ring. And Mitchell would still most likely leave at the end of his 2nd deal.
 
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