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Mandatory education at 3 years age

heyhey said:
Clarification



I was saying that I think all people behave less clan like compared to those just a few decades ago. I expect that trend will continue.

I have no qualms with religious belief or spirituality. I don't think being Christian is a problem in and of itself. You seem to think that being atheist or "aspiritual" is a problem. It is reasonable for me to ask you why.
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I think people are as clan like as ever. Just how they define their clan has changed.

Spirituality is belief without having to be part of a denomination. Have a 60 year old friend that hasn't been in a church in 40 years and he is one of the most spiritual people I know.
 
But really, what's wrong with getting education started earlier? We're already pretty fail... and going after a degree in many, many cases means bank note you won't finish paying until you're 50.

Why not start earlier, and get our kids to finish high school with the equivalent of an associates degree, with extra curricular option of a bachelors?
 
ElRoach0 said:
But really, what's wrong with getting education started earlier? We're already pretty fail... and going after a degree in many, many cases means bank note you won't finish paying until you're 50.

Why not start earlier, and get our kids to finish high school with the equivalent of an associates degree, with extra curricular option of a bachelors?
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I like the idea of giving high school kids an associates level of education but let's be honest starting kids at 3, or even in the womb for that matter, isn't really going to make that happen. If the argument was for dropping the last 2 years of high school completely and allowing the child to attend an institution of their choosing I can see it. Thinking that we will fix our education system by making toddlers attend is silly in my view.
 
heyhey said:
I like the idea of giving high school kids an associates level of education but let's be honest starting kids at 3, or even in the womb for that matter, isn't really going to make that happen. If the argument was for dropping the last 2 years of high school completely and allowing the child to attend an institution of their choosing I can see it. Thinking that we will fix our education system by making toddlers attend is silly in my view.
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Been in a classroom lately? Some kids don't want to learn and aren't going to learn, even if you give them Robin Williams or Marry Poppins for a teacher. Generally their parents are in some level of denial, but aren't always complete neglectful idiots. When I grew up in St. George, we would Millcreek those kids and at least try something non-traditional before sending them off to tie flies at $5.50 an hour. Seriously, some of them need to be "left behind" if they are slowing down the rest of the class by behaving badly. Making those kids join the army is a stupendously stupid idea. The best thing is to let them bump around at $5.50 an hour until they decide they want to actually purchase an xbox, or beer. The worst possible thing to do is subsidize that xbox or beer. Lack of xbox or beer is a great motivator and they will eventually move up to tying flies AND fashioning lures at $6.50 an hour.
 
framer said:
Been in a classroom lately? Some kids don't want to learn and aren't going to learn, even if you give them Robin Williams or Marry Poppins for a teacher. Generally their parents are in some level of denial, but aren't always complete neglectful idiots. When I grew up in St. George, we would Millcreek those kids and at least try something non-traditional before sending them off to tie flies at $5.50 an hour. Seriously, some of them need to be "left behind" if they are slowing down the rest of the class by behaving badly. Making those kids join the army is a stupendously stupid idea. The best thing is to let them bump around at $5.50 an hour until they decide they want to actually purchase an xbox, or beer. The worst possible thing to do is subsidize that xbox or beer. Lack of xbox or beer is a great motivator and they will eventually move up to tying flies AND fashioning lures at $6.50 an hour.
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Maybe you should read my post again. To be clear I advocated abolishing the final 2 years of high school and giving kids a choice. I'm not sure that's what you thought I meant.
 
Yeah, I wasn't entirely focused on you, I apologize. The idea that losers who can't hack high school should float to the military is a pretty common one. If someone doesn't have the mental stamina to get through high school, their stint in the military isn't going to go well. I would like our military to be more educated and selective, which I think is happening.
 
framer said:
Yeah, I wasn't entirely focused on you, I apologize. The idea that losers who can't hack high school should float to the military is a pretty common one. If someone doesn't have the mental stamina to get through high school, their stint in the military isn't going to go well. I would like our military to be more educated and selective, which I think is happening.
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There is more than one reason a kid doesn't do well in high school. This idea that they are all losers seems rather foolish to me.
 
Stoked said:
There is more than one reason a kid doesn't do well in high school. This idea that they are all losers seems rather foolish to me.
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That's right. My son is 17 and he is epileptic. He is generally a very smart kid, but he has in excess of 100 absence seizures every day, which makes it very hard for him to concentrate or retain information learned. Meds help, but he has virtually no chance in a traditional high school setting, so he is working on getting his GED.
 
LogGrad98 said:
That's right. My son is 17 and he is epileptic. He is generally a very smart kid, but he has in excess of 100 absence seizures every day, which makes it very hard for him to concentrate or retain information learned. Meds help, but he has virtually no chance in a traditional high school setting, so he is working on getting his GED.
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High School has just about become a participation award, this isn't 1965 where you drop out of school to learn a trade. Obviously there are physical factors that can keep you from participating like illness or your parents restraining you from attending school. We all know that that isn't what I am referring to here. I consider a GED just as good as a diploma, so no worries there, as sometimes it may take people a little longer to get a diploma than others, it is a good choice no matter how long it takes to be made. For those who are able to attend school and don't, it is a life choice to suck and likely be a ward of the state.
 
LogGrad98 said:
That's right. My son is 17 and he is epileptic. He is generally a very smart kid, but he has in excess of 100 absence seizures every day, which makes it very hard for him to concentrate or retain information learned. Meds help, but he has virtually no chance in a traditional high school setting, so he is working on getting his GED.
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Have you heard about Western Governors University? It's an online school founded by the governors of the western states(kinda duh) I know 2 people that got their degrees through the school, they both were very positive about it. One was teaching abroad and the other is a single mom. Might be a good choice for your son.

https://www.wgu.edu/about_WGU/overview
 
ElRoach0 said:
But really, what's wrong with getting education started earlier? We're already pretty fail... and going after a degree in many, many cases means bank note you won't finish paying until you're 50.
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The student loan debt issue is largely a myth. Do yourself a favor and look into the real statistics of who is in debt for school and why (Hint: it's children of rich parents who must attend a very expensive, elite school).

The vast majority of graduates have very manageable debt levels. Considering that employment in the US is very strong for those with a bachelors or better (it hit just 4% in the Great Recession), and wages are very liveable, coming out of college with what amounts to a car payment for the next 5 years is well worth the investment. & most grads don't even have that high of debt.
 
franklin said:
The student loan debt issue is largely a myth. Do yourself a favor and look into the real statistics of who is in debt for school and why (Hint: it's children of rich parents who must attend a very expensive, elite school).

The vast majority of graduates have very manageable debt levels. Considering that employment in the US is very strong for those with a bachelors or better (it hit just 4% in the Great Recession), and wages are very liveable, coming out of college with what amounts to a car payment for the next 5 years is well worth the investment. & most grads don't even have that high of debt.
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I just bought a Corolla. I decided I need to change occupations. To get a mechanical Engineering degree I'm looking at just a few thousands more than it was to buy my car. In state tuition really is a fantastic deal.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I know our place on the world stage of education has gotten worse, but is that just because we have stagnated or are we getting worse overall or not improving fast enough?
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I'm not sure that we are even as far behind as some claim we are. Most of those claims are based on standardized testing.
 
JAZZGASM said:
The problem is we have a one size fits all system that does not promote learning, but instead teaches to the lowest common denominator (at least at the HS I went to).
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Most teachers teach to their "B" students, not their "D" or "F" students.
 
One Brow said:
Most teachers teach to their "B" students, not their "D" or "F" students.
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Even then the overall tone of Jazzgasm post remains the same. "One size fits all" is not the best way. To do it the much more effective way would require a much better use, and increase, of the funds provided. Also new tactics and methods.
 
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