Game Thread Mar 20, 2023 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Kings

[framer]

Spurs: Tanked their asses off and could keep churning the roster because they had their core built around.

God this whole debate is so ****ing tired but it's always better to have better picks. If the Warriors don't have the 6th pick, guess who they probably don't draft? Or if the Bucks scrapped their way into the playoffs in '13?

It's not all about the top of the draft, but yeah, you bet your *** if you land a Tim Duncan or LeBron then the organization has to be absolute dreck to not make it happen (and the Cavs still were, Lebron just cracked the code... wait for it... by letting the Cavs accumulate talent and assets to assemble a super team in Cleveland).

TLDR; The vast majority of NBA champions and maybe every dynasty ever - besides Laker teams - did it with lottery picks in the draft.

We got lottery talent in the last draft. I'm not convinced Kessler isn't top 5 talent in THIS draft.

 

[The Thriller]

We played a bunch of rookies and 10 day contract guys. I mean, aren’t we already tanking?… I guess we could tank even more? Maybe? I guess we could’ve thrown out a lineup of Brantley, Bear, that Chinese unicycle lady, Greg Miller, and Tony parks. But it wasn’t like we played Clarkson, Lauri, and Sexton 40+ mins tonight. Our lineup was depleted and this should’ve been an easy win for the Kings. At some pt I empathize with Hardy. He’s already playing 2nd and 3rd string guys. What’s he supposed to do? Play some ward basketball guys 40+ mins? You can’t make it too obvious, right?

Maybe our guys played well and the Kings ****ed up? Maybe… don’t let Dok get double figures? Maybe… don’t let Ochai look like prime Kobe? And then what happens if Tony Parks goes off for 40 and beats the Kings? Continue to whine?

 

[NUMBERICA]

Best you call in to DA office and enlighten him with this information

Whilst you’re there , inquire why Kessler isn’t sitting , someone special on here wants to know why no one listened to him

Oh, he knows. He just thought he could **** around all season while the Lakers got desperate but it never happened.

 

[Step-Back Hook]

IDK what is this debate of needing lottery picks to build a contender.
We have lot of them: Lauri, Kid Kessler, Ochai, Collin... No one is older than 25. And we got Dunn off the bench.
Turns out our GM knows what he does in his trades. All this panic from some people here when we are having one of the goatest GM's ever and a promising rookie coach that has let these kids grow. I applaud to this.

EDIT: oops... Kid Kessler was 22nd pick. But worth of top 5 pick at this point.

 

[Coach Ellis]

There’s always outliers - especially with such young players at the top of the draft. . . but it’s always better to have top 10 picks. Just gives your team better odds to get an impact player. With that said, there are definitely guys who will go later that will become franchise caliber players.

The Jazz just barely stated this rebuild by trading away two All Stars who were both drafted outside the top 10. We just have to hope that DA and JZ find those guys no matter where they pick.

Hell, the Jazz just barely had one of the better drafts in 2022, and they did it without having any picks - imagine what they can do with 3 of them.

 

[Zombie]

I’ve been pro tank all along, but I’ve also enjoyed (and rooted for) every win.

If they lose, I’m not all torn up about it. . . but when the win, I can still appreciate just how damn good Danny Ainge and Will Hardy are. This year has been nice after the past few heartbreakers.

Same, pretty much. Even if you do everything right, the chances of it working out and winning a championship are not great as a small market NBA team. I'm not going to sweat those odds getting adjusted down a fraction of a percentage point because my team won a thrilling game.

 

[Coach Ellis]

Same, pretty much. Even if you do everything right, the chances of it working out and winning a championship are not great as a small market NBA team. I'm not going to sweat those odds getting adjusted down a fraction of a percentage point because my team won a thrilling game.

I’ve majorly adjusted my draft expectations as the season has gone on.

At the start of the year, I thought they had a real chance to get an impact player in the top 4 - maybe even Wemby.

Then I started thinking that Jerace Walker or Cam Whitmore would be a nice consolation prize for falling outside the top 4.

Then I started thinking it was more likely that they could get an underrated guy like Taylor Hendricks or Cason Wallace - before getting my hopes up again for that too 4 jump.

At this point, I’ll be happy to walk away with GG Jackson, Sidy Sissoko and/or Leonard Miller.

 

[framer]

Spurs: Tanked their asses off and could keep churning the roster because they had their core built around.

A good portion of the players in the NBA were not even alive when this happened, not to mention that the lottery odds were a completely different animal. Boston tanked pretty hard too and ended up with bad Chauncy Billups. The only player after that with a major role on his team was drafted at 9, Tracy McGrady who didn't really peak until after he left.

The part you are missing is that almost no other rebuilding team has had 14 first round picks and 3 swaps coming their way to add to an allstar (could probably be all NBA if we are honest) and 2 lottery talent rookies already in place. And basically no garbage salary. We ain't in the same position as the other tankers (outside of OKC, of course.)

 

[Gameface]

Its "likely" to find better players in the late lotto/first round because it happens every year. That's a fact.

"Very likely” for this year in particular?

Hell yeah.

Like you favorite kids Black, Dick or Hendrick? These guys aint no top 4 prospects. And the current top 4/5 favorites like the Thompson twins are pretty mid for various reasons and I would take guys projected outside of top 10 over them in a heartbeat.

That's really all I'm saying.

Try not to put words in people's mouth and look for confrontation sometimes.

You say "find" but what you really mean is "be left with"

The earlier the pick the more likely the team picks the person they want the most.

That's how that works.

What you seem to be advocating for is having our 4th or 10th or 14th choice left and taking them because we didn't get the player we expected to be be better and then we'll "likely" have the better player afterall.

I mean it's fine if you think rolling dice with more sides is the best way to land on the number you want, but it's not true.

 

[framer]

At this point, I’ll be happy to walk away with GG Jackson, Sidy Sissoko and/or Leonard Miller.

And Hardy will drag them to a 3 seed by next year. . .

 

[Maneesh]

Gotta remember Ochai and Kessler are rookies we got in trades. Lauri and Collin young veterans entering their primes. Dunn is a dirt cheap off the bench fundamentals veteran off the bench. When we add whatever good rookies and trade for a star this team could win more than one series. been tooting this since Dec. we are having a generational coach so getting the high 1st would mean we would have to kill some momentum and important development lessons from these kids. If all those trades did not work to make us suck... Better just buckle up and take whatever comes. If its in the lottery then ok. if it is for the post-season series then nice.

You are be to far hyper this day. Thank you

 

[framer]

You say "find" but what you really mean is "be left with"

The earlier the pick the more likely the team picks the person they want the most.

That's how that works.

What you seem to be advocating for is having our 4th or 10th or 14th choice left and taking them because we didn't get the player we expected to be be better and then we'll "likely" have the better player afterall.

I mean it's fine if you think rolling dice with more sides is the best way to land on the number you want, but it's not true.

I mean taking the dudes at "random" from last year via trade is better than anything that the Jazz have done since they drafted Donovan. Maybe the mystery box is working for us. . .

 

[jom2003]

Wtf is this? Please go look at the history of the #4 pick and the #15 pick and tell me how many times 15 was better than 4… it’s not a crapshoot after 4 and no one who has actually looked at this draft and has multiple brain cells thinks that.

Just go look up draft class 2013 and 2015 then get back to me.

I never said it's "more likely" to get a better player at 15th cuz that'd be silly. But it's definitely very possible. There's been draft classes in which 7 out of 10 guys drafted in the top 10 are busts. And the best player out of that draft class ends up being someone taken outside of the top 10. I mean for goodness sake it's only been 9 months but who'd leave Kessler available until the 22nd pick in the draft?

We can't just look at the generalized history but have to analyze each draft class on a year by year basis.

 

[FrenchJazzFa]

I love those kind of debate. If we were bad, half of the board will post how good it is to have high pick. We are too good and suddenly picks are not that important...... i think the truth is in-betweeen. you can pick high but still need a bit of luck. Zion, Wiseman are not winning anything right now as is JA.
We can trade our pick to get better but i believe that this is trough smart trade that we will become a contender. Full trust in Hardy and DA. So i wanna see this team in the Play-in, PO as this is the best way to learn.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Just go look up draft class 2013 and 2015 then get back to me.

I never said it's "more likely" to get a better player at 15th cuz that'd be silly. But it's definitely very possible. There's been draft classes in which 7 out of 10 guys drafted in the top 10 are busts. And the best player out of that draft class ends up being someone taken outside of the top 10. I mean for goodness sake it's only been 9 months but who'd leave Kessler available until the 22nd pick in the draft?

We can't just look at the generalized history but have to analyze each draft class on a year by year basis.

You said very likely… and two out of like 20 plus years… don’t be dumb

 

[jom2003]

You said very likely… and two out of like 20 plus years… don’t be dumb

"Very likely" means well...very likely. As opposed to words like MORE likely or BETTER. Don't be dumb. Read English and stop putting words in my mouth.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

"Very likely" means well...very likely. As opposed to words like MORE likely or BETTER. Don't be dumb. Read English and stop putting words in my mouth.

It’s very likely we will draft someone better than we could at 4… okay… got it… I can’t read.

 

[infection]

 

[jom2003]

It’s very likely we will draft someone better than we could at 4… okay… got it… I can’t read.

Yeah apparently you cant.

let me rephrase it for you. would you take Kessler, or would you take Murray/Mathurin/Sharpe/Daniels/Johnny Davis. Read it again.

 

[framer]

I love those kind of debate. If we were bad, half of the board will post how good it is to have high pick. We are too good and suddenly picks are not that important...... i think the truth is in-betweeen. you can pick high but still need a bit of luck. Zion, Wiseman are not winning anything right now as is JA.
We can trade our pick to get better but i believe that this is trough smart trade that we will become a contender. Full trust in Hardy and DA. So i wanna see this team in the Play-in, PO as this is the best way to learn.

I don't think that anyone thinks that a non-lottery pick is better than a lottery pick, in fact literally NOBODY thinks that, it is a straw man. What people are saying is that the damage, at this point, you would have to do to this team to ensure a top 10 pick, isn't worth the long term cost. Jazz are doing their damndest to tank and the players are having NONE OF IT. at some point you just need to say "fine, show us what you can do!" and take off the hundred pounds of garbage you have taped to them to slow them down.