Met D-Will this weekend.

[vj_74]

With the way the NBA was set up, the best way to win a title is not through the draft. The best way to win a title is to get in a big market, and then go way over the luxury tax paying for superstars. The Nets have their market, Brooklyn, and they needed their superstar to lure others to NY. They tried to get LeBron, Boozer, Bosh, etc and failed. No one wants to be the first person to sign up, in case they get burned. So, they traded away their future for Deron. It doesn't matter anyways, because they never planned to use those picks. They want Howard and someone else to join Deron in NY.

Thanks, that saved me some typing.

I was responding to those here who think that it is outrageous that ANY team would trade away a couple of lotto picks and a middling point guard for Deron.

Well the Nets are an example of a team, who is not even a contender anytime soon, and can still find enough reason to trade for a player like D-Will.

This doesnt mean the Jazz made a bad move. This trade makes a lot of sense for the Jazz. But what I disagree with, is the notion that a GM has to be stupid or naive to give up all that for Deron.

 

[NUMBERICA]

How many think that if the Nets had known that the 2011 pick in the trade would be #3, they would still have done it?

And they knew who would be in the draft (or not, rather)? Absolutely.

Let's hold off on the KOC is genius talk for a couple of years and see how each team pans out.

 

[vj_74]

Damn right.

Also to those who think KOC is Einstein already, I wonder where he was these past two years when the Jazz needed some good pieces around Deron to keep him from getting frustrated or picking fights with his coach. KOC is good at managing crisis situations, I'll give that to him. He can salvage somthing out of a bad situation, be it the Korver trade after the Giricek-Sloan feud or Al's trade after Boozer's departure. But I wouldnt call him a genius yet. We persisted with a flawed core for 4 years watching them regress slowly, resulting eventually in the departure of a HOF coach and a franchise/all-star/Olympian PG. I wouldnt call that the work of a genius

 

[Stifle Tower]

Bottom line is that the stars really aligned for Utah, and to their credit, they took full advantage. With Derron's bad attitude plus an injury and the looming lockout uncertainties it was a miracle that KOC could leverage the Nets for so much. Genius move on the Jazz's part! KOC is looking like a fantastic negotiator... especially if reports are correct that Gayle Miller demanded that DWill be traded no matter what.

I don't put much stock in the Gayle "rumors." The Jazz were certainly looking to trade Deron, but it could have been during the next season. In fact, KOC said after the trade that he actually called NJ about another player and he was told the Nets had no interest (I'm presuming KOC offered AK and his expiring contract). KOC then asked King if he was interested in any other Jazz player and King took the bait. The deal was easy to consummate at that point because they had already offered a similar package for Carmelo.

To answer Colton's question, I think NJ would have gone ahead with the deal even had it been the #1 pick. The Nets needed star power. They already have a good young center in Lopez and Deron is certainly >>>> Irving. So would they have chosen Derrick Williams? Whichever player they chose at #3, combining him with Harris, Lopez and a raw Favors wasn't going to attract FA's or sell tickets. However, Deron might. Giving up Favors may turn out to be a huge mistake. I know Humphries had a good year, but I just don't see him ever being a top-tier starter. And the two additional lottery picks could have helped. A major gamble for NJ.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Damn right.

Also to those who think KOC is Einstein already, I wonder where he was these past two years when the Jazz needed some good pieces around Deron to keep him from getting frustrated or picking fights with his coach. KOC is good at managing crisis situations, I'll give that to him. He can salvage somthing out of a bad situation, be it the Korver trade after the Giricek-Sloan feud or Al's trade after Boozer's departure. But I wouldnt call him a genius yet. We persisted with a flawed core for 4 years watching them regress slowly, resulting eventually in the departure of a HOF coach and a franchise/all-star/Olympian PG. I wouldnt call that the work of a genius

It's not like KOC can wave a magic wand and get rid of bad contracts or get the exact players he wants. And he was just one voice - and probably not the most important one. We all heard the rumor that it was Larry H. who shot down at least one trade of AK. As for Boozer, Sloan was always quick to defend him. That "flawed core" actually got the Jazz off to a 12-1 start one season, IIRC. I don't think it was out of the realm of possibility to think the team would get better as they matured together. That happened with Stockton/Malone. Unfortunately, Boozer and AK were always hurt and the team could never match up against the Lakers. I wouldn't call KOC a genius, but he's done a masterful job of rebuilding the team after the retirement of Stockton/Malone and now post-Boozer/Williams. Some teams - even the big market ones - take YEARS to recover after the loss of a star or two (e.g. Boston, LA and Chicago after the Bird, Magic and Jordan eras).

Utah has now had a total of two losing seasons over the past 28 years; one due to injuries and the other due to he turmoil of having a star player revolt and then get traded and a coach leaving mid-season. That's not bad. Maybe the Jazz will have one more losing season next year with all the youth on the team. I won't mind, because I can see the potential of the front court and two promising wings, with additional assets in the pipeline. And the Jazz will be on solid financial footing. Job well done by KOC, IMHO.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Also to those who think KOC is Einstein already, I wonder where he was these past two years when the Jazz needed some good pieces around Deron to keep him from getting frustrated or picking fights with his coach. KOC is good at managing crisis situations, I'll give that to him. He can salvage somthing out of a bad situation, be it the Korver trade after the Giricek-Sloan feud or Al's trade after Boozer's departure. But I wouldnt call him a genius yet. We persisted with a flawed core for 4 years watching them regress slowly, resulting eventually in the departure of a HOF coach and a franchise/all-star/Olympian PG. I wouldnt call that the work of a genius

I honestly don't think anything KOC did would have been good enough for Dare-on. Some people are just so picky and have an attitude that makes them impossible to please. It reminds me of this girl I once knew. Trust me in that the DeeWill antics would have still happened.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I have already been told I'm wrong on this .. and I certainly can accept that I very well may be. However, I was feeling Deron resented having to play for the Jazz and a bunch of scrubs, rather than on a contending team, where he belongs.

 

[vj_74]

I wouldn't call KOC a genius .

Thats exactly my point. I agree he is not bad at all, but genius is a big word for what he has accomplished. He has more than his share of draft mistakes and FA signings

Utah has now had a total of two losing seasons over the past 28 years; one due to injuries and the other due to he turmoil of having a star player revolt and then get traded and a coach leaving mid-season. That's not bad.

Well KOC was not around for 28 years. But I get your overall point. But then the Jazz ownership have always laid emphasis on being competitive(meaning playoff worthy) ASAP even if it means losing out on championship contention

Maybe the Jazz will have one more losing season next year with all the youth on the team. I won't mind, because I can see the potential of the front court and two promising wings, with additional assets in the pipeline. And the Jazz will be on solid financial footing. Job well done by KOC, IMHO

There are quite a few questions surrounding the picks, the coaching, the rule changes after new CBA etc. etc, to already decide that KOC has done a masterful job. Jury is still out. He salvaged something out of the Deron situation, well and good. We can only wait and see how it pans out. I am not about to anoint KOC as the GM of the year or a genius yet. Also we are not yet far removed from a mess of a season where we just lost our HOF coach and franchise PG. So it is a little difficult for me right now to stand up and applaud KOC after that kind of a season. The results of his actions last year will be known only in the coming years. Jury is still out. There are more moves to be made. I am not sure the team as it stands now is what it is going to be for the next 5 years.

 

[Fishsticks]

So it is a little difficult for me right now to stand up and applaud KOC after that kind of a season. The results of his actions last year will be known only in the coming years. Jury is still out. There are more moves to be made. I am not sure the team as it stands now is what it is going to be for the next 5 years.

What do you mean the result of his actions? He HAD to move Williams. Is he a genius? Nope, but he made a move that ensured we would get maximum value for one of the best pg in the league. I think what we got in return was pretty damn amazing. The jury is back on this one and he clearly made out. Btw...Deron Williams does not feel pain, pain feels Deron Williams.

 

[NUMBERICA]

What do you mean the result of his actions? He HAD to move Williams.

Is there a reason half the board acts like they have a ****ing crystal ball? "Deron absolutely would have left. The Jazz won in the trade because they got a middling PG scraping 30, Chris Wilcox, and some dude that likes wrestling and scored a lot of points in games most people don't care about (YEARS beforehand) and will probably sit ANOTHER year before he really plays again."

It is so obvious the future is laid out for everyone to see. Come on.

 

[NCJazz]

Is there a reason half the board acts like they have a ****ing crystal ball? "Deron absolutely would have left. The Jazz won in the trade because they got a middling PG scraping 30, Chris Wilcox, and some dude that likes wrestling and scored a lot of points in games most people don't care about (YEARS beforehand) and will probably sit ANOTHER year before he really plays again."

It is so obvious the future is laid out for everyone to see. Come on.

Seriously, you really think there was much of a chance Deron was going to stay? I guess we should have hoped and prayed like Cleveland that the big star was going to stay. Getting a sold PG, 2 #3 picks and hopefully another lotto pick was clearly the right thing to do. Crystal ball or no crystal ball.

 

[InGameStrategy]

Thats exactly my point. I agree he is not bad at all, but genius is a big word for what he has accomplished. He has more than his share of draft mistakes and FA signings

What I wonder is who is the ultimate decisionmaker in these signings.

Raul Lopez vs. Tony Parker? Lopez looked about as good at the time (although TP was a bit taller).
Borchardt? Can be chalked up to a calculated risk. I don't recall a player that the Jazz should've taken instead, even in hindsight, although I wonder who evaluated the x-rays. Still a quest for an the elusive big man.
AK's 7-year max contract? I could see LHM having been promoting that notion.
Re-signing a slower, aging Okur for 2 more years and 8 figures per year? A gross overestimation of Okur's value (especially defensively) by both the coaching staff and the front office.
Drafting Kris Humphries over Big Al in the first place? Probably a Jazz aversion to high school players after the D-Steve experiment (although DS turned into a decent niche player and 7th man).
The Kris Snyder disaster? Would've required a full pre-draft psychiatric evaluation to avoid.

I second the idea that KOC has been a top 10 GM. Problem is that he is unlikely to get accolades if the coaching potential isn't maximized to bear the fruits of his labor. With Sloan (and now Corbin), the potential isn't likely to happen.