Muslims, Political Correctness, and the Juan Williams saga

[One Brow]

In response CAIR goes wild, calling for immediate action against him, which they got.

Here's what's missing: a link between the calls by CAIR and the actions by NPR. Why would NPR worry about CAIR's opinions?

This all seems contrary to you assumption that the responses to NPR were orchestrated by, or inspired by, O'Reilly's comments on his "factor" program.

I don't believe I attributed that to O'Reilly, or even Fox News, specifically. However, they do have the largest audience among the players, and the news segments were running well before Wiliams appearance on O'Reilly.

As far as my opinion about what NPR did, I say they done got played by a very small, ideologically-driven special interest group (CAIR) and ignored the mainstream wishes with respect to Williams.

Again, where is the evidence that CAIR influence NPR?

But it’s not. This was a blunder of enormous proportions. Even many liberals—Donna Brazile, Joan Walsh, Whoopi Goldberg—are castigating National Public Radio for throwing Williams overboard.

Why is it "Even many liberrals"? Why would liberals be more likely to support an NPR action? Is NPR supposed to care more about what liberals think than conservatives?

NPR Chief Executive Vivian Schiller—dubbed a “pinhead” by O’Reilly—made matters worse by suggesting that Williams needs psychiatric attention.

We both know that's not what she actually said.

 

[moevillini]

this is so very allegorical...

...The charge is that CAIR is attempting to terminate discussion, not promote it, and that ideas of "political correctness" can exacerbate the problems by refusing to accept honest statements in public dialogue.

Is your issue with CAIR or with NPR? I'm not sure anymore, you seemed to be directing your earlier comments against NPR's actions in the firing, but now it seems you're more concerned with CAIR's actions.

At any rate, setting CAIR, NPR, Juan Williams and all these related issues aside, I'll agree that in general ideas of "political correctness" can exacerbate the problems that arise in any dialogue involving sensitive issues. However, there is almost always a way to make a statement that conveys an "unpopular" idea without resorting to "politically incorrect" language.

and context counts...

 

[Hopper]

Why would NPR worry about CAIR's opinions?

They shouldn't. But ax Kicky. He's seems to suggest that "complaints" by listeners (without even qualifying his statement to consider the nature or content of the complaint or the identity of the complainer) are determinative of what NPR should do.

I don't believe I attributed that to O'Reilly, or even Fox News, specifically. However, they do have the largest audience among the players, and the news segments were running well before Wiliams appearance on O'Reilly.

You seemed to blame it on a "angry segment," Eric. Certainly the Fox News report (as opposed to the opinionated "Factor" segment which O'Reilly presides over) was not an "angry" segment. The first to run the story was presumably NPR (who Fox News quoted) in any event, and the ombudsman said the e-mail reponses were from THAT news story and were generated off of NPR's own website.

Again, where is the evidence that CAIR influence NPR?

More on that later, although it was mentioned in the first vid I posted

Why is it "Even many liberrals"? Why would liberals be more likely to support an NPR action? Is NPR supposed to care more about what liberals think than conservatives?

Yes, they are. "Supposed" in the sense that that is how they are generally perceived by their own audience, by others who don't listen regularly, and by impartial "analysts" of the media. But not "supposed" in the sense of "should," of course.

We both know that's not what she actually said.

We both know what she said, Eric, and it seems obvious to all I've seen comment (except you) just what she was trying to insinuate, which is presumably why she apologized. If you want to cling to your denial of the innuendo, help yourself. I'm not gunna debate you about it for 4 pages.

 

[Hopper]

this is so very allegorical...




Is your issue with CAIR or with NPR? I'm not sure anymore, you seemed to be directing your earlier comments against NPR's actions in the firing, but now it seems you're more concerned with CAIR's actions.

At any rate, setting CAIR, NPR, Juan Williams and all these related issues aside, I'll agree that in general ideas of "political correctness" can exacerbate the problems that arise in any dialogue involving sensitive issues. However, there is almost always a way to make a statement that conveys an "unpopular" idea without resorting to "politically incorrect" language.

and context counts...

How about "politically incorrect" thoughts, Mo? "Politically incorrect" feelings? Politically incorrect psychological states which people might subjectively and casually impute to you, such as "bigotry?"

Mo, did you watch any of the vids I posted? Did you watch theone (a link to a vid, not embedded) which included the "context" (which NPR omitted) within which Williams made his "objectionable" comments?

 

[moevillini]

...At any rate, setting CAIR, NPR, Juan Williams and all these related issues aside, I'll agree that in general ideas of "political correctness" can exacerbate the problems that arise in any dialogue involving sensitive issues. However, there is almost always a way to make a statement that conveys an "unpopular" idea without resorting to "politically incorrect" language.

and context counts...

How about "politically incorrect" thoughts, Mo? "Politically incorrect" feelings? Politically incorrect psychological states which people might subjectively and casually impute to you, such as "bigotry?"

Mo, did you watch any of the vids I posted? Did you watch theone (a link to a vid, not embedded) which included the "context" (which NPR omitted) within which Williams made his "objectionable" comments?

I did, but as I wrote, I'm setting aside the issues related to Juan Williams, CAIR, NPR etc. as I'm not sure that's really where you want to go with this discussion. At any rate, Juan Williams was taking his chances. O'Reilly doesn't let anyone complete a sentence that doesn't validate the direction he wants to steer the conversation.


And I'm not a mind reader. I can't evaluate thoughts, feelings or psychological states.

 

[DeliveryBoy]

If a white commentator had said "it makes really uncomfortable when a bunch of young black males in saggy jeans and tattoos walks in to a grocery store, because you know they might rob the place" he'd appropriately be condemned for saying something bigoted. I really don't get why it becomes okay to say something like that about Muslims.

*I didn't read the whole thread, don't know if anyone else made this point already.

 

[C l u t c H 385]

If a white commentator had said "it makes really uncomfortable when a bunch of young black males in saggy jeans and tattoos walks in to a grocery store, because you know they might rob the place" he'd appropriately be condemned for saying something bigoted. I really don't get why it becomes okay to say something like that about Muslims.

*I didn't read the whole thread, don't know if anyone else made this point already.

Well, if a black guy in the deep south sees a bunch of white guys with bad hygiene, bald head, and sheets, he shouldn't stick around to find out if they're cancer patients. /Chris Rock

(or something like that.)

 

[Hopper]

I did, but as I wrote, I'm setting aside the issues related to Juan Williams, CAIR, NPR etc. as I'm not sure that's really where you want to go with this discussion. At any rate, Juan Williams was taking his chances. O'Reilly doesn't let anyone complete a sentence that doesn't validate the direction he wants to steer the conversation.

One reason I ax, Mo, is that I understood you to say that Williams' (probably out of context) remarks struck you as "racist." Still feel that way, after watchin the vids?

And I'm not a mind reader. I can't evaluate thoughts, feelings or psychological states.

Well, you can evaluate whether thoughts (if expressed), feelins (if expressed), and presumed psychological states comply with the requirements of political correctness, caincha?

 

[Hopper]

Well, if a black guy in the deep south sees a bunch of white guys with bad hygiene, bald head, and sheets, he shouldn't stick around to find out if they're cancer patients. /Chris Rock

(or something like that.)

"If I'm walkin the streets late at night and I hear loud footsteps behind me, I git worried. If I look behind me and see it's a white guy, I'm relieved" (Chris Rock, or some black comedian, I mighta forgot just who)

 

[C l u t c H 385]

"If I'm walkin the streets late at night and I hear loud footsteps behind me, I git worried. If I look behind me and see it's a white guy, I'm relieved" (Chris Rock, or some black comedian, I mighta forgot just who)

what a bigot, probably a homophobe too, eh Hoppy?

 

[Hopper]

O'Reilly doesn't let anyone complete a sentence that doesn't validate the direction he wants to steer the conversation.

Ya think, Mo? Is that some kinda bigotry against O'Reilly, I wonder? I'm sure I've seen him let people who's opinion he despised (and/or disagreed with) complete their sentences and elucidate the exact nature of their thoughts on his show many, many times.

I could be wrong, I spoze, but....

 

[Hopper]

what a bigot, probably a homophobe too, eh Hoppy?

Probly, Clutch, which might be OK, except for one thang: It aint no kinda PC, I tellya!