NBA Expansion?

[One Brow]

Just like learning or memorizing the basics in anything helps you to handle the more complex advanced aspects of the subject. If I know how to dribble and its automatic due to boring repetitious muscle memory I am able to free up my thoughts in game to analyze what is going on with the defense, where my teammates are, etc. If I understand theory of basketball its going to be impossible to play still if I am dribbling the ball off my foot.

Again, an abstract concept absent an application with regard to mathematics.

Pretty obvious - just because we have the info at our fingertips doesn't mean its not valuable to teach it. Why teach spelling and grammar... we have spell check and apps and it saves time.

Spelling and grammar are essential components of reading as well as writing.

If its too hard maybe memorize a few notes and chords rather than trying to play a song. Math homework regularly leads to tears and frustration.

I used to hear that about memorizing times tables, as well.

You've been discussing situations where building basic skills leads to the ability to perform more complex tasks, and I agree this is a progression we need to aim for. However, you seem to think times tables are one of these skills in doing math. The better metaphor is that doing times tables is like memorizing your height, wingspan, and shoe size in basketball. Sure, if you know them, it'll be slightly quicker to get equipment that fits properly, but that's not going to help you play the game.

That's cute but likely dishonest.

You aren't important enough to be worth lying to.

Pretty tough to be terrible at one thing and pretty good at the advanced concepts it builds on.

I agree. That was my point; you just understood it backwards. If your understanding is correct, maybe you should do a few times tables practices and then re-reread it.

Look you are more familiar with it... I'm sure it has great benefits somewhere that may make it superior in some ways... I'm merely downloading the results in our household.

One of the banes of my existence is dealing with math as taught by elementary/high school teachers who learned it by rote instead of understanding it. There is so much to unteach.

 

[One Brow]

We don't allow cell phones in the warehouse. We do provide calculators for some roles. The warehouse management system takes care of most of the basic math. But it isn't flawless. The people that are most successful are the ones who can figure out the times the box doesn't match the system and still understand how many they need to ship. It's very very helpful for people to be able to figure out some basic arithmetic on the fly like this in my environment, to the point we often give math tests as prehire screening. Times tables comes in very handy in the work place where I am.

That's certainly an example where the times tables come in handy. Perhaps if the people who wrote the computer system understood the math better, you wouldn't need to rely on doing this stuff in your head.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

That's certainly an example where the times tables come in handy. Perhaps if the people who wrote the computer system understood the math better, you wouldn't need to rely on doing this stuff in your head.

Perhaps when common core creates Eutopia we will no longer have a practical application for times tables. Until then...

 

[LogGrad98]

That's certainly an example where the times tables come in handy. Perhaps if the people who wrote the computer system understood the math better, you wouldn't need to rely on doing this stuff in your head.

The problem is the human element all the way through the supply chain. Sometimes the factories in China don't pack the right quantities into the boxes. Sometimes we have to open the boxes to see how many are inside and we have to mark it on the pallet so the pickers and shippers know. Sometimes a pallet holds 32, or 36, or 28, and all for the same product. Sometimes an ocean container gets repacked into a diesel trailer, which holds about 1.3 ocean containers and all the pallets get messed up. There are so many factors in the supply chain that no computer system can anticipate all of the variables.

Once we got a huge plywood box in with maybe 1500 units of product (it was clothing that time, shirts I think). The shipping company told us the ocean container it was in had been dropped and burst open scattering boxes all over the place so they gathered what product they could and sent it to us. We spent 3 days with about 5 dedicated people sorting, grading, and repacking what amounted to several hundred cardboard cases of clothes.

But in many industries the ability to perform some basic math, including multiplication and division, can range from being very handy to critical to business. Yes calculator are available but at the speed everything is often moving it just isn't always practical. It's a bad assumption that cell phones or calculators can completely eliminate the need for math skills like this. At least with current technology and processes. Who knows, down the road maybe. But I still think we do our kids a disservice by not helping them develop these skills. Sure not everyone will have the same ability just like in literally every other subject they will learn, but it doesn't mean it is useless to make the effort. Many of them will be far better off to have worked to develop at least some skill than none at all.

 

[One Brow]

Perhaps when common core creates Eutopia we will no longer have a practical application for times tables. Until then...

Until then, we should spend instructional time where it will do the most good for the most people.

 

[One Brow]

But I still think we do our kids a disservice by not helping them develop these skills. Sure not everyone will have the same ability just like in literally every other subject they will learn, but it doesn't mean it is useless to make the effort. Many of them will be far better off to have worked to develop at least some skill than none at all.

There are many skills we don't teach anymore. Keyboarding classes don't teach you how to center text on letterhead by counting spaces anymore. It's a valuable skill to have, but there are other, more important skills, and we have to prioritize. So, we try to measure the size of one disservice against the size of another disservice, and go with the smallest.

 

[LogGrad98]

There are many skills we don't teach anymore. Keyboarding classes don't teach you how to center text on letterhead by counting spaces anymore. It's a valuable skill to have, but there are other, more important skills, and we have to prioritize. So, we try to measure the size of one disservice against the size of another disservice, and go with the smallest.

Agreed. It seems basic math is a fairly important skill. I'm not seeing the benefits of teaching abstract math concepts over basic skills in arithmetic in the real world. I don't see the need for those skills going away any time soon. I do see a lot of young kids, 18-24, coming into my warehouses without basic math skills in the past 5 years or so and they struggle. The interesting thing is it's the kids that will end up in jobs like those in my field that need this, which is a larger percentage than will end up in college, but we are shifting away from teaching this basic skill. Not sure how learning abstract math helps them better than arithmetic skills would. I don't think academics always have the best view of what is needed in industry or business, and neither do politicians, but unfortunately it's almost exclusively these 2 groups that make these decisions.

 

[One Brow]

I don't think academics always have the best view of what is needed in industry or business, and neither do politicians, but unfortunately it's almost exclusively these 2 groups that make these decisions.

You could be right, but those academics are consulting with businesspeople, unions, etc. as well as other academics to figure this stuff out, so it's not just a small, closed circle of information.

 

[Elizah Huge]

There are many skills we don't teach anymore. Keyboarding classes don't teach you how to center text on letterhead by counting spaces anymore. It's a valuable skill to have, but there are other, more important skills, and we have to prioritize. So, we try to measure the size of one disservice against the size of another disservice, and go with the smallest.

Why would someone need to count spaces when you can highlight the text and click center to center it?

 

[LogGrad98]

You could be right, but those academics are consulting with businesspeople, unions, etc. as well as other academics to figure this stuff out, so it's not just a small, closed circle of information.

Not sure I agree with this, can you provide citations? Other academics of course, but I question both the depth of consultation and efficacy in terms of business and industry leaders. Also odds are the ones being consulted are the ones spending the most dollars lobbying, which isn't always in the best interest of the public.

I found this which was interesting...

The Impact of Arithmetic Skills on Mastery of Quantitative Analysis

Over the past several years math education has moved from a period where all math calculations were done by hand to an era where most calculations are done using a calculator or computer. There are certainly benefits to this approach, but when one concomitantly recognizes the declining scores on...

www.hindawi.com

The data in this study does support, at least at the correlational level, the notion that the ability to solve math problems by hand does have a connection to how well students are able to perform more advanced work that doesnot directly require computation but requires the ability to use higher-order quantitative reasoning skills which are assumed to be associated with physical brain development.

The correlations in our student would suggest that teaching students by requiring them to perform at least some math calculations and manipulations by hand could improve their ability to perform more complex quantitative reasoning. In an era of declining math performance it certainly seems like an option worthy of further study and research.

 

[gandalfe]

So, if there were an expansion, and we had to leave, say, 3 players unprotected. Who would you pick?

 

[Gameface]

So, if there were an expansion, and we had to leave, say, 3 players unprotected. Who would you pick?

Mitchell
Conley
O'Neil

Am I doing this right?