Negative effective tax rate for many companies

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Just to clarify, Amazon had paid no federal tax the last couple years for a few reasons, R&D expenses, growth (business, equipment, etc.) and stock compensation for employees (not to be confused with an Employee Stock Ownership Plan or ESOP, which is a completely different animal and most often result in employees owning 100% of the company as an additional benefit that they don't pay for). Still, what Amazon is doing is nothing novel. Amazon provides stock compensation to employees that are valuable/help grow the business, and they get good deductions by doing this. Deductions for stock based compensation, retirement plan contributions, etc., are they type of deductions that are good for employees and society in general.

Now the tax breaks Amazon gets from state and local governments is a different discussion altogether.

Thanks for the clarification and correction.

I'd love to see a federal law outlawing state and local tax break privileges to special interests but we know that wouldnt go over well.

 

[Alfalfa]

Don't know what you're responding to but why waste your breath? There's a certain segment of the population that will never be satisfied and permanently engaged in class warfare. Hell, Obama just put in massive wealth taxes that were a huge transfer to the poor through Obamacare. They weren't just paper tax rate increases either. It was something like a massive 20-25% effective increase the rich paid in just one year. He hit dividends and cap gains with a 58.7%, which was long overdue. That's a huge, steep, shocking increase. It was such a big change that some of the more astute liberal writers were complaining that Obama's credit was virtually non-existant because celebrating it would have meant weakening the class warfare rhetoric.

Another good example is Bernie's crying about Amazon. As @JAZZGASM explained the code, a huge part of Amazon's tax avoidance was by giving ownership to the working class. Do they care to explain how that is detrimental to society?

Most people see through the plebian outrage full of cherry picked examples, and those outraged are clueless as to why the reaction they often get is Oh STFU child.

I'm sorry, I just can't get over what an awful person you are. Any complaints about the economic situation is class warfare. Any complaints about prejudice is race baiting. Just an awful human being. Awful.

You should be called out as much as Dutch. But you're not, and I can't stand it. So you win.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Wealth for everyone except the very top has not kept up with GDP for a few decades now. So your definition of growing wealth is absurd when the average person's purchasing power has declined. Can someone on an entry level salary even buy house in the city anymore? No.

Most Americans are feeling this pinch and they are left with taking one and sometimes both choices:

1) Taking out more credit to make up for their loss in purchasing power due to stagnant wages and increasing costs of living.
2) Become frustrated at living a lower standard of living than before.

Fox News and a certain political party have honed in on this frustration. Rather than using this frustration to create a type of "New Deal" to help advance the American society for the 21st century economy, they are redirecting this frustration at brown Spanish speaking people, Muslims, and blacks.

So while the robber barons make off with billions, the losers in this economy are struggling to put up an organized resistance largely because so many working class Americans are pointing their guns at each other.

At some point, you'd think people would get wise to this? But I'm not so certain anymore. Fox News and the 1 percent have really perfected their art of disinformation to exploit on the cultural and intellectual biases of working class Americans. Never before has disinformation been able to spread to so many people in such little time (social media). And due to the American congressional structure, all the 1 percent need to control is 1 of the 3:

* The House
* The White House
* Enough of the Senate to filibuster and kill any legislation (2/3rds majority is required)

The 2/3rd majority is the real kicker. Even if the progressive left's wet dream were to come true, AOC becomes speaker (I'm sort of joking here), Bernie wins the WH, the senate will be an issue for decades.

So those creaming themselves over the thought of single payer systems and free college education, keep dreaming. As long as republicans hold at least 1/3rd of the senate, none of your **** will be passed, no matter how many people "feel the bern."

 

[TroutBum]

Haha, Alfalfa is super dumb.


Carry on.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Just to clarify, Amazon had paid no federal tax the last couple years for a few reasons, R&D expenses, growth (business, equipment, etc.) and stock compensation for employees (not to be confused with an Employee Stock Ownership Plan or ESOP, which is a completely different animal and most often result in employees owning 100% of the company as an additional benefit that they don't pay for). Still, what Amazon is doing is nothing novel. Amazon provides stock compensation to employees that are valuable/help grow the business, and they get good deductions by doing this. Deductions for stock based compensation, retirement plan contributions, etc., are they type of deductions that are good for employees and society in general.

Now the tax breaks Amazon gets from state and local governments is a different discussion altogether.

Which is huge in states, like Utah who are giving handouts like candy to businesses to build up Lehi and Draper. These companies get handouts of free water, electricity, taxes, etc with the promises of "creating jobs" and "eventually paying" for all of these costs once they run out in 15 years. But then they'll threaten the local city and state governments that they'll pull out if they don't get these handouts renewed. This puts city and state governments in a real bind, since they don't want to be blamed for losing jobs after such a large taxpayer investment (building roads, new schools, etc) has been made. That'll mean political suicide.

Kansas tried this in the 1990s, and their economy has yet to recover.

Utah politicians are patting themselves on their backs right now for the "booming" economy... But I'm not so sure citizens are enjoying the short-term gains of growing way too much way too fast. Nor do I believe they're aware of the hidden costs that are going to come crashing down here in about 10-15 years when companies all along "silicon slopes" demand a renewal of their handouts OR ELSE.

Just because your economy is growing fast doesn't mean it's a healthy economy. If fast growing economies were so great, we'd all be admiring Indonesia, Panama, and Pakistan right now. Which is probably why you never hear on KSL or read in the Dnews what these "new jobs" in Utah are offering in terms of wages... Hehehe, our politicians always tout "new jobs" but never describe the wages or impact costs. Gee, I wonder why?

But quick, look! New Prison! Inland port! Uhhhhhh lets hurry and distract people with a new drunk driving law! #MAGA

 

[Deleted member 365]

Faster than the cost of living/inflation?

I lose money every year. My budget gets hurt every year. I also get a raise every year.
I could give a **** if my wealth grows if it grows slower than my expenses.

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Most Americans are feeling your pain. That's why credit card debt increases yearly. People must use credit to make up for their stagnant wages and increased cost of living. Yet again, the robber barons of our exploit the working class. And yet we're too busy arguing over abortion, building a wall, and whether Muslims intentionally set fire to Notre Dame to organize any united front against the corrupt (Gilded-Age like) capitalism that has disrupted our society since the 1970s.

 

[Hotdog]

I'm sorry, I just can't get over what an awful person you are. Any complaints about the economic situation is class warfare. Any complaints about prejudice is race baiting. Just an awful human being. Awful.

You should be called out as much as Dutch. But you're not, and I can't stand it. So you win.

Bro. You got issues. You are replying to him and calling him an awful human being when all he is doing is discussing taxes?

You really need to take a look in the mirror. Just calling someone an awful human being is very degrading to them. Degrading people is basically the same as being a racist. You are giant hypocrite. Its amazing how blind you are to how ridiculous you sound. Its like you have no self awareness.

 

[Hotdog]

Wealth for everyone except the very top has not kept up with GDP for a few decades now. So your definition of growing wealth is absurd when the average person's purchasing power has declined. Can someone on an entry level salary even buy house in the city anymore? No.

The poorest people today live better than most people did 80 years ago. A poor person can buy a trailer home that is on par with most really old houses. Everyone has a big screen tv, cell phone, ability to easily travel one way or another. Ive seen homeless people with smart phones. You can buy healthy garden fresh veggies and fruit for cheaper than you can grow them. You can buy all sorts of cheap food to live off of.

How does this fit into the narrative that everyone isnt getting richer? Seems to me the entire planet is doing better economically than they were century ago

Ya, there is a wealth gap growing between the classes. But doesnt mean you arent better off than you were a few years ago. Are you sure that what you are feeling isnt jealously and bitterness that you aren't crazy rich?

The complaining you and Thriller do sounds like there is the 1% and a bunch of poor people. The fact is there are people who are middle class and upper to middle class who are doing just fine. Because they have god jobs.

 

[Hotdog]

Its all good though, i mean ya these wealthy corporations are getting to keep more money than ever but thats a good thing cause that means they can give us all awesome raises! I got a 25 cent raise this year! My health insurance went up by almost 100 dollars per month and my mortgage increased along with basically the price on everything else so the 25 cent raise is actually more like a dock in pay. But at least i can work even more overtime than i already was to make up for the loss in pay! Yippee!


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How do you know that the company you work for is even all that profitable? Have you seen their books? Have you ever seen a business go out of business? Maybe that 25 cents is more than they can even afford to give you. They might be on the verge of bankruptcy. Do you think that maybe the ex-employees of big businesses like Sears, Kmart, Blockbuster, and Toys R Us thought to themselves they were not being paid a fair wage? Do you think they had the same thoughts as you? Were they right? Did they deserve more money even though the profit margins couldn't afford it?

Here is an even better question. Have you ever tried running a business? Do you have any idea the costs that go into running a business? Do you know how easy it is to run a business into the ground?

You guys assume that every business is just raking in millions and billions of net profit.

If you arent getting raises its because you arent making yourself more valuable. You aren't keeping up with change. You arent adapting. In fact you are probably becoming less valuable. Is your job getting easier to do? Does it take less skil to do now than it did years ago?

Think about it like this..

If you package potatoe chips your entire life and the other guy makes a new and smarter cell phone every year. Do you think you should be able to trade the same amount of bags of potatoe chips every year for a newer, more sophisticated smart phone that took the other guy years and years of hard work to make better while you still just make potatoe chips?

This assumption that just because you are doing something means you are owed something in return, is a fallacy. Its theft from other people. Its morally wrong to be a socialist. Your work is not equal to someone else's because you say so. To think so is being blind to the fact that you would not like it if someone did that to you. If a homeless man just said to you that he gets to sleep in your bed 50% of the time because thats fair, you would not like that. But somehow you dont grasp the concept of the problem with socialism.

 

[fishonjazz]

How do you know that the company you work for is even all that profitable? Have you seen their books? Have you ever seen a business go out of business? Maybe that 25 cents is more than they can even afford to give you. They might be on the verge of bankruptcy. Do you think that maybe the ex-employees of big businesses like Sears, Kmart, Blockbuster, and Toys R Us thought to themselves they were not being paid a fair wage? Do you think they had the same thoughts as you? Were they right? Did they deserve more money even though the profit margins couldn't afford it?

Here is an even better question. Have you ever tried running a business? Do you have any idea the costs that go into running a business? Do you know how easy it is to run a business into the ground?

You guys assume that every business is just raking in millions and billions of net profit.

If you arent getting raises its because you arent making yourself more valuable. You aren't keeping up with change. You arent adapting. In fact you are probably becoming less valuable. Is your job getting easier to do? Does it take less skil to do now than it did years ago?

Think about it like this..

If you package potatoe chips your entire life and the other guy makes a new and smarter cell phone every year. Do you think you should be able to trade the same amount of bags of potatoe chips every year for a newer, more sophisticated smart phone that took the other guy years and years of hard work to make better while you still just make potatoe chips?

This assumption that just because you are doing something means you are owed something in return, is a fallacy. Its theft from other people. Its morally wrong to be a socialist. Your work is not equal to someone else's because you say so. To think so is being blind to the fact that you would not like it if someone did that to you. If a homeless man just said to you that he gets to sleep in your bed 50% of the time because thats fair, you would not like that. But somehow you dont grasp the concept of the problem with socialism.

Lol


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[Hotdog]

Lol


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Lol.
A man who refuses the light will remain in darkness even by the side of light.

 

[fishonjazz]

Lol.
A man who refuses the light will remain in darkness even by the side of light.

You are a man (I think) who is an idiot

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