Newer study on Racism

[Ron Mexico]

Since this topic was all over the Jazz board I thought I would put this study in here that I found very interesting.

A lot of people including myself think that wage inequality and was more of an issue than racism and the reason for a lot of things we point out as racist.

This study shows that black people make less regardless of what wealth they come from.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html

Here is a good quote in it that has nothing to do with the study but someones comment about the study.

“One of the most popular liberal post-racial ideas is the idea that the fundamental problem is class and not race, and clearly this study explodes that idea,” said Ibram Kendi, a professor and director of the Antiracist Research and Policy Center at American University. “But for whatever reason, we’re unwilling to stare racism in the face.”

 

[JazzGal]

Interesting study. I do agree that we are unwilling to stare racism in the face. If you even try to discuss racism with almost anyone, they get defensive and refuse to acknowledge that racism even exists. I suppose as a country we share in the collective guilt about slavery, and we do not like to admit that it has any bearing on the economic status of blacks now.

I read a tweet or something over the weekend about a black man who lives in a fairly affluent white neighborhood. A package was incorrectly delivered to his house. His comment was that he could not send his son to deliver the package to the correct address a block away, because a black teenager approaching a white house would likely result in the police being called. The comments mostly focused on the fact that UPS would pick up the package and deliver it correctly, which was not at all the point of the post. Everyone seemed to try to ignore the fact that black teenagers are expected to be up to no good, and that they are not free to go anywhere they like.

White privilege means that I never have to think about whether what I wear will make others afraid of me, whether I am likely to end up dead when pulled over by a cop, whether I will be apprehended as a shoplifter just for walking around a store, and whether people will be afraid of me approaching their house with a package. So many things I take for granted in my life, and I hate the fact that so many others do not get to do so.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Interesting study. I do agree that we are unwilling to stare racism in the face. If you even try to discuss racism with almost anyone, they get defensive and refuse to acknowledge that racism even exists. I suppose as a country we share in the collective guilt about slavery, and we do not like to admit that it has any bearing on the economic status of blacks now.

I read a tweet or something over the weekend about a black man who lives in a fairly affluent white neighborhood. A package was incorrectly delivered to his house. His comment was that he could not send his son to deliver the package to the correct address a block away, because a black teenager approaching a white house would likely result in the police being called. The comments mostly focused on the fact that UPS would pick up the package and deliver it correctly, which was not at all the point of the post. Everyone seemed to try to ignore the fact that black teenagers are expected to be up to no good, and that they are not free to go anywhere they like.

White privilege means that I never have to think about whether what I wear will make others afraid of me, whether I am likely to end up dead when pulled over by a cop, whether I will be apprehended as a shoplifter just for walking around a store, and whether people will be afraid of me approaching their house with a package. So many things I take for granted in my life, and I hate the fact that so many others do not get to do so.

I think some of the people who struggle with the concept of privileged cant get over the hard things they have dealt with. They think that the world has also been unfair to them and they are right. We all deal with the world being unfair, we all get treated poorly at times. But there is a difference and a lot of that difference isnt necessarily on an individual level but as a society. However I think if people paid attention more to people around them they would see it on an individual level more often. Really the only way to solve it is for people to be less selfish and start seeing the world through each others eyes more and treat people how they want to be treated. The world never ceases to amaze me how selfish we can all be and how much we hurt each other for no reason.

Honestly if I did shoplift something and I got caught more often than not I could simply say I made a mistake and get let go. People dont watch me in their stores, people dont check my ID with my credit card, people dont switch sides on the side walk when I get near, no one has called the police on me for walking around a neighborhood, I never get pulled over unless I am breaking a traffic law, and so on for lots and lots of things.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Very interesting read. I don't automatically agree with the conclusions many will walk away with though. There is clearly a cultural factor to these issues. For example, go read the health statistics on newborns living or dying. Cuban Americans and Mexican Americans or illegals have higher survival rates than whites despite being underinsured comparatively.

There is also the possibility that children of newly AA rich, who suffered through and overcame poverty and racial suppression, spoil their children. I know I probably couldn't help myself from doing so. I mean, there weren't a lot of rich black families in the 50's and 60's were there? So maybe it's a generational anomaly that will adjust over time.

Their's also the rich WASP culture that might be to blame for some of this but I don't know if that's even a thing anymore.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I just saw this video the other day which talks about a few good issues that I think some people have not seen or heard of before. It also explains some of the income inequality that was due to racist policies. It is really cheesy and simplified but has some good stuff.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

I've posted studies on this in the past (5-6) years ago. The main problem now was governmental programs designed to wall off AA into segregated areas and the decline of manufacturing as a % of the workforce after the great build out of America. This started in the 20's or 30's, but WWII took hold and changed the Depression.

Then, many of the remaining jobs left high property value areas for more rural areas with cheaper land costs while the companies could sell their property to developers for more than the building was worth. AA weren't able to follow the job relocations because of racism in housing discrimination.

Government responded and created the acts that eventually created the 2008 bubble.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I've posted studies on this in the past (5-6) years ago. The main problem now was governmental programs designed to wall off AA into segregated areas and the decline of manufacturing as a % of the workforce after the great build out of America. This started in the 20's or 30's, but WWII took hold and changed the Depression.

Then, many of the remaining jobs left high property value areas for more rural areas with cheaper land costs while the companies could sell their property to developers for more than the building was worth. AA weren't able to follow the job relocations because of racism in housing discrimination.

Government responded and created the acts that eventually created the 2008 bubble.

What did you think of the video then. I believe the policies that segregated people with housing ownership is the largest factor effecting financial discrepancy today. But I also believe racist people and policies have hurt for a long time and still do today. Land ownership is a large factor in this county and families wealth.

As a person who owns his own property, other property and would like to own as much as I can for financial security I find it a silly thing that we have in our society, I am not sure the fix though. It is silly that people who are more rich can buy up property and drive up rent and poor people have to pay more to live in that house since they dont own it. It is a negative effect in our society. Being a landlord benefits society next to none. But so do lots of things like real estate agents. I dont think the solution is government owning all land though and I am not sure what other solutions are anyways. Maybe just making it simpler to own the house you live in and much harder to own houses you do not live in.

The only thing new to me in the video that I had not heard is that we are more segregated today in schools than we were in the 70s.
https://www.epi.org/files/2013/Unfinished-March-School-Segregation.pdf

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

That's an economic conundrum I haven't seen a reasonable proposal for. I've been a longtime advocate for subsidized clean energy or whatever public benefit programs in high crime cities. Jobs are the only solution out of this mess.

But then you get into macro picture and have to realize both Keynesian Theory and Moneterist policies both want to either keep the animal sprits alive or inflate prices, both essentially equal terms IMO, and then we end up back where we started with unaffordable housing as wages in an area rise and prices follow.

The benefit to this, however, is stabilizing communities (including banking funding) by keeping role models off the streets and out of prison, strong institutions, and maybe most importantly a safe community environment conducive for advancement.

 

[Douchebag K]

Maybe just making it simpler to own the house you live in and much harder to own houses you do not live in.

I don't know how this can be achieved but i agree with this a zillion percent.

 

[framer]

Nah, there is definitely a place for landlords, most of which are not slum lords. Having an option to rent is ideal for a lot of people, especially for people who move around a lot or find themselves in a different situation in life. There are plenty of people who wouldn't know the first thing about maintaining a home, nor would they care to learn. They just want to make a call if the garbage disposal doesn't work.

My bro in law has 3 rental properties and spends a lot of time and money improving and maintaining those properties, at the end of each mortgage he will have a lot of equity and financial gain (assuming house prices don't collapse) but it is real work that he likely won't see the return off of for decades. He is taxed through the nose for the privilege as well. I don't see why you want to punish him for providing a service to other people who wish to rent his property.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Nah, there is definitely a place for landlords, most of which are not slum lords. Having an option to rent is ideal for a lot of people, especially for people who move around a lot or find themselves in a different situation in life. There are plenty of people who wouldn't know the first thing about maintaining a home, nor would they care to learn. They just want to make a call if the garbage disposal doesn't work.

My bro in law has 3 rental properties and spends a lot of time and money improving and maintaining those properties, at the end of each mortgage he will have a lot of equity and financial gain (assuming house prices don't collapse) but it is real work that he likely won't see the return off of for decades. He is taxed through the nose for the privilege as well. I don't see why you want to punish him for providing a service to other people who wish to rent his property.

Pretty much. We rent a basement apartment and people come and go in early 20's transition.

Aside from the higher tax bill and time spent tracking our Schedule E, the emotional distress involved is tough to deal with.

It takes decades and plenty of work in Utah to see a return with these low cap rates.