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Game Thread Nov 19, 2023 06:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Suns


Added to Calendar: 11-19-23

To all the posters that say the play at the end was not a foul (I could go either way on it personally), I have an honest question. I'm genuinely curious. I'm fine if the NBA wants to say it's not a foul if you get the ball first and yada yada. But in your heart-of-hearts, if the tables were turned and it was Durrant or Booker shooting it and a Jazz defender did the same thing (say it was KO), does the call get overturned?
In my heart of hearts, it doesn't get overturned on most nights. The requirement for overturning a call is as follows:

https://official.nba.com/rule-no-14-coaches-challenge/#:~:text=To overturn a challenged event,of the play was incorrect

c. To overturn a challenged event or to change the outcome of a reviewable matter via a Challenge, there must be clear and conclusive visual evidence that the initial adjudication of that aspect of the play was incorrect.

d. Once the instant replay review process is triggered by a Challenge, the on-court crew chief or Replay Center Official (as appropriate) shall arrive at one of two determinations with respect to the call that was challenged:

(1) The call stands (i.e., there is not clear and conclusive visual evidence that the call was incorrect); or

(2)The call is overturned (i.e., there is clear and conclusive visual evidence that the call was incorrect).

FIRST - My big issue here is that the review took 4 minutes. Reviewing something for 4 minutes does not inspire belief that there is CLEAR and CONClUSIVE EVIDENCE that the call was incorrect. Any time someone needs 4 minutes to review a call, it is not clear and conclusive. M

SECOND - Most reviews end up justifying a foul due to minor contact in spite of the ref calling a foul for a wind up in the absensce of the anticipated contact that wasn't there. And in many of those calls, the fouls are still held due to some minor element of contact that happened. Just watch the daily reviews around the league and you will see what I am talking about. Watch reviews all year and the calls that are upheld are usually upheld over minor contact justifying the call even though that minor contact happens all game regularly and wouldn't justify a foul being called. But it's enough to uphold those calls.

THIRD - Reviewing it the 12 times we watched it, there wasn't just contact on the wrist that was confirmed, but there was another hand on the hip pushing Maarkanen along with the fact that Durant came into Lauri's space. Either of those justify a foul along. The wrist was clearly knocked along with the additional contact.

FOURTH - If the standard is that you can destroy a player so long as you touch the ball first then the league will need to hold that up the rest of the year. Sorry folks, not the case. If so, Plumlee will become a tremendous assett because he can legally touch a ball and break your leg and it is appropriate. That is not the way the rule will be applied the rest of the season and everyone knows it. So, in super slow mo, not sure why that becomes the standard all of the sudden unless the refs were too tired to ref another overtime.

If the Suns shot that shot and a foul was called and I saw the review, I wouldn't be freaking out that a foul was upheld. I would be flustered that a call was made in the first place but upon review... it was a foul.
 
I was just about to post about the jump
Ball. I think it was @fishonjazz who saw it live and called it. Those two jump balls are pathetic.
I actually wouldn’t be angry at all if the NBA got rid of the jump ball. They could flip a coin instead, like they do in football. Held balls could be treated as they do in college with the possession arrow. Jump balls in the NBA just seem like a waste of time. You either have a guard who has tied up a bug attempting to jump or the refs screwing up the jump. Make it more interesting, efficient, and strategic by getting rid of it and making it a possession arrow.
 
Yes, obviously some players get the benefit of the doubt. I think all parties know and accept that. Just one of those things in the NBA microcosm. (As an aside, we have none of these players. Lauri is a Top 25 guy and an All-Star but gets role player treatment from the refs.)

But teams? Nah. The modern NBA is dominated by individual stars and social media engagement. Team brands and market sizes are much less important for the business side of the league than they used to be. But if you're a team (like the Jazz) that doesn't have a single guy who gets a star whistle, it's easy to think the refs have it in for the team as a whole.
Refs dont have it in for any team. But if any random Lakers player gets a bad call at the end of game there are 5 national TV sports talk shows talking about it, because they talk about the game anyways.

If it happens to Jazz, the platform its being highlighted in is Andy Larsen and Tony Jones in Twitter.
 


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