Game Thread Nov 23, 2022 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Pistons

[Step-Back Hook]

It definitely looked like his bounce wasnt there when he hit the front iron on those few shots early on. I dont know if Hardy made them run lines after the loss or smth.

But I cannot sugarcoat the loss or his performance in the first half. He did show up for the second half but I think that one stupid elbow non-call threw him back off and eventually ended up snapping our back.

I never thought Sexton would play PG as good as he did and we would still lose. Defense was eventually why we lost.

IMO he was in for 39 minutes last game and went HARD for offensive boards all game and just did not recover for this one.
What I read in some Finnish discussions, some seems to think if Lauri is at all using performance enhancing substances, which we know being a common practice in American pro leagues. If he does not that is gonna lead to less or more off games during the season. If he is using like most of them then he just has to work with endurance even more.

Collin had his best game of the season. He is not Mike but did as well HE can and not lot more to ask from him. In becoming months I would think he is getting better running the floor with the developmental staff helping him out.

 

[sip]

IMO he was in for 39 minutes last game and went HARD for offensive boards all game and just did not recover for this one.
What I read in some Finnish discussions, some seems to think if Lauri is at all using performance enhancing substances, which we know being a common practice in American pro leagues. If he does not that is gonna lead to less or more off games during the season. If he is using like most of them then he just has to work with endurance even more.

Collin had his best game of the season. He is not Mike but did as well HE can and not lot more to ask from him. In becoming months I would think he is getting better running the floor with the developmental staff helping him out.

What the heck are you talking about? Lauri is not on PED's.

 

[HeatCheck]

They got a total of zero points in the first half from Vando and Lauri.

As much as I really like Vando having him start next to Lauri is just making it that much more difficult to get Lauri easy points as the defenses are catching up. It's not like the frontcourt was having any success trying to stop Bagley on the other end of the court either. I just feel like there are still a few pieces still missing. Between Lauri, Vando, and Olynyk they got a total of 3 points from their starting frontcourt in the first half. You just can't win games that way. I saw on another board they were calling Lauri passive in this game. Maybe he's a little tired but do think teams are starting to make adjustments and he's going to become the guy opposing defenses game plan for more and more.

They made a few nice little runs in the 2nd half but just couldn't get over the hump. Every time they would get within 4 points something crazy would happen. Simone or Beasley would drive out of control, JC would hoist a bad shot, or Lauri got elbowed in the face without a foul being called. Maybe a more experienced game manager like Conley gets them into their sets but in this case I'm not really sure that's the case. Sexton had a pretty nice game so happy for him. Kessler looked pretty good in his minutes too. Beasley was red hot in the first half but cooled down a bit in the 2nd.

The next 13 games is a gauntlet and going to really decide what they end up doing in January in regards to dealing any of the veteran players. I'm pretty sure Ainge already has an idea what he's going to do but we will see how it plays out.

 

[HeatCheck]

Very fair comment.

Just one thing: In Finland people are also very ”cruel” with their comments of Lauri.

If he has a bad game = he’s a total waste of space according to them.

But there are also those who think he can walk on water. And most are in between = realistic.

But I think it is not fair to label him this or that.

He was very good during 1st&2nd Bulls years, then he was put into his own dog house by Boylen lifting weights&standing in the corner like waiting for a bus or something.

In Cavs he was good, no doubt about it.

I think he averaged like 15p/game during those years. That is not statistics of a failure and he was never used as option 1-2 during those years, mostly not even 1-3.

Hope he can help Jazz, if Ainge&fans think he cannot then he should be traded away. Very simple.

Welcome. Nice to see some reasonable takes.
For the most part Jazz fans are thrilled to have Lauri.
Most of the Finn fans seem very reasonable although the ones who think Lauri walks on water and only want to trash the rest of our team can get a little tiring.
We already have fans that want to trade a player every time they have a bad game. I guess that's the nature of these fan forums.

 

[HermanG]

They got a total of zero points in the first half from Vando and Lauri.

As much as I really like Vando having him start next to Lauri is just making it that much more difficult to get Lauri easy points as the defenses are catching up. It's not like the frontcourt was having any success trying to stop Bagley on the other end of the court either. I just feel like there are still a few pieces still missing. Between Lauri, Vando, and Olynyk they got a total of 3 points from their starting frontcourt in the first half. You just can't win games that way. I saw on another board they were calling Lauri passive in this game. Maybe he's a little tired but do think teams are starting to make adjustments and he's going to become the guy opposing defenses game plan for more and more.

They made a few nice little runs in the 2nd half but just couldn't get over the hump. Every time they would get within 4 points something crazy would happen. Simone or Beasley would drive out of control, JC would hoist a bad shot, or Lauri got elbowed in the face without a foul being called. Maybe a more experienced game manager like Conley gets them into their sets but in this case I'm not really sure that's the case. Sexton had a pretty nice game so happy for him. Kessler looked pretty good in his minutes too. Beasley was red hot in the first half but cooled down a bit in the 2nd.

The next 13 games is a gauntlet and going to really decide what they end up doing in January in regards to dealing any of the veteran players. I'm pretty sure Ainge already has an idea what he's going to do but we will see how it plays out.

I think he already has been more closely guarded in past 8 or so games. I agree about the passive comment for the first half, as he didnt really put the ball on the ground like we've seen him do more and more.

Regarding Vando, I do agree he is problematic on offense if he is passive but I remember him doing few great cuts and Sexton giving him dimes in the 2nd half. Lauri can feed him from his cuts and rolls as well, as long as he crashes the paint from the weak side and doesnt just space out. It will give us 2 on 1 plays in the paint where Vandos man has to choose who to defend.

Our bigger problems are on defense. Vando cannot defend bigs and KO is a bad rebounder. We need 2 people in the paint when Kessler is not in, and Kessler isnt a perfect solution either.

Essentially each pairing has problems:
Kessler + KO = Two players who cannot guard athletic wings and also weakens our perimeter defense due to lack of speed
Kessler + Vando = No spacing for Lauri on offense
KO + Vando = Struggle in the paint on defense
KO + Beasley = Best offense but paint defense goes worse and rebounding goes from bad to worse
Vando + Beasley = Weak paint defense especially against bigger bodies

It might be worth to try Kessler + Beasley, but I'm not sure Kessler is ready for first team yet.

 

[Step-Back Hook]

What the heck are you talking about? Lauri is not on PED's.

I mean I do think in top level sports almost everyone does if quick recovery is needed. And in American and some other high level leagues - like most int. soccer - the testing is almost non existent.I do not ask anyone to agree with it but thats my realistic view of how world works.
And I do think those who does not use, might suffer from tiredness more but in a long run, might be better for the body.
I just do not see in top tier basketball, NHL, NFL, athletics etc. it is likely to be consistent all the time, if not being a natural freak with recovering.
I have no idea which of athletes do not use, so I have not claimed myself certain names do or does not use.

But thats about this bc. I do not want this to derail discussion so I wont comment more. Just made sure to make clear I personally have no opinions of him or someone else using, but I in general believing it is a common practice.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I mean I do think in top level sports almost everyone does if quick recovery is needed. And in American and some other high level leagues - like most int. soccer - the testing is almost non existent.I do not ask anyone to agree with it but thats my realistic view of how world works.
And I do think those who does not use, might suffer from tiredness more but in a long run, might be better for the body.
I just do not see in top tier basketball, NHL, NFL, athletics etc. it is likely to be consistent all the time, if not being a natural freak with recovering.
I have no idea which of athletes do not use, so I have not claimed myself certain names do or does not use.

But thats about this bc. I do not want this to derail discussion so I wont comment more. Just made sure to make clear I personally have no opinions of him or someone else using, but I in general believing it is a common practice.

Strongly disagree. I think the majority of athletes don't use peds. Most people just want to assume they are to downplay their accomplishments. I have a little bit of experience working with high level athletes and my experience is it's very rare. It's very common among 40/50 year old gym guys though. They constitute the overwhelming majority.

 

[Tom349]

Ehhh the guys I play with it just means you are cooking them… doesn’t matter how. Burn, cook, Bbq chicken are all synonymous for us… sorry for the confusion.

Not sure why he wouldn’t have his legs tonight… they were on a back to back not us.

Never really understood this line of thinking. I mean in theory it make sense that the more you play and less game time between games the more likely you're to be tired and lack energy. But that only works in theory. In reality you can rock up to any game and from the moment you start warming up you can be lacking energy, your body can be hurting for whatever reason. Sometimes your body can get too used to playing that having a rest can make it take a while to get back up to speed.

As a collective team it makes sense to be down and be lacking legs on b2b or long road trips but when speaking of individuals I think its simply a case of how they're on the day.

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

I’m a guy that seldom complains about the officiating but Wednesday’s Piston game was a Thanksgiving Feast for the Pistons and we were on the menu. The Refs served up tons of stolen Utah foul to their Detroit cronies - they got 27 free throws (made 25) to our 19. It was just the most creative foul calling I’ve ever witnessed with phantom fouls called on guys not not even involved in the play. I for one will never forget the Thanksgiving Eve Heist of 22 or the arrogant faces of Kennedy, Nansell and Goldenberg as they meticulously picked our carcass clean!

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Never really understood this line of thinking. I mean in theory it make sense that the more you play and less game time between games the more likely you're to be tired and lack energy. But that only works in theory. In reality you can rock up to any game and from the moment you start warming up you can be lacking energy, your body can be hurting for whatever reason. Sometimes your body can get too used to playing that having a rest can make it take a while to get back up to speed.

As a collective team it makes sense to be down and be lacking legs on b2b or long road trips but when speaking of individuals I think its simply a case of how they're on the day.

He’s 25… he should have his legs… maybe he just sucked and was mentally unprepared… why does it have to be something that’s outside of his control.