Game Thread Nov 25, 2023 07:30PM MT: Jazz vs. Pelicans

[Ron Mexico]

We were sloppy but Pels also played aggressive defense and forced a lot of those (they had 15 steals). Previous high TO games we kinda self-inflicted a lot of TOs by doing bad decissions in our driving and passing. We did some here as well, but a lot was also about them being aggressive. Pels are 6th in the league in steals per game and they had 17 in a game vs Dallas (Luka accounting for 8 of them), so its not like they havent done it before.

But there also was a major positive stat for that game: We had only 13 PF's, which is our lowest total of the season.

This is the second season in a row of being terrible at turnovers. Either its a player issue or a coaching issue, but either way its a huge issue! Then when you look at us not only turning the ball over the most in the NBA this year and 2nd worst last year we give up a the most off those points. We also hardly get any turnovers and get any points for those. This is easily one of the biggest reasons for our offense and defense sucking. Its huge point difference every game.

 

[fishonjazz]

Yeah, total passes don't equal ball movement

lol. A pass is when the BALL MOVES from one player to another player.

 

[HermanG]

This is the second season in a row of being terrible at turnovers. Either its a player issue or a coaching issue, but either way its a huge issue! Then when you look at us not only turning the ball over the most in the NBA this year and 2nd worst last year we give up a the most off those points. We also hardly get any turnovers and get any points for those. This is easily one of the biggest reasons for our offense and defense sucking. Its huge point difference every game.

Oh its definitely a major issue. We average 6.1 turnovers per game more than the best team (Mavs) and 1.6 more than the 28th team (Blazers). Only Pistons are even close to us largely thanks to Cade who leads the NBA in turnovers and Duren and Ausar duo (those 3 guys combine for 9.8 per game!!). We are also 29th as a team in assist/TO ratio with 1.48 (only Portland is worse).

I think there are three major reasons at least:
1) The quality of our guard corps is not good. That is just a sad state of affairs, and something that doesnt fall on Hardy.
2) Hardy wants us to play the type of ball that some of those guards are not wired to play.
3) Our key bigs are not very good at ball handling or passing, which generates turnovers and puts extra pressure on those subpar guards.

Funny stat of the day though:
In games where we have 20 or less TO we are 2-8
In games where we have 21+ TOs we are 3-3 (in fairness, all the losses here are 16-17 point blowouts)

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Oh its definitely a major issue. We average 6.1 turnovers per game more than the best team (Mavs) and 1.6 more than the 28th team (Blazers). Only Pistons are even close to us largely thanks to Cade who leads the NBA in turnovers and Duren and Ausar duo (those 3 guys combine for 9.8 per game!!). We are also 29th as a team in assist/TO ratio with 1.48 (only Portland is worse).

I think there are three major reasons at least:
1) The quality of our guard corps is not good. That is just a sad state of affairs, and something that doesnt fall on Hardy.
2) Hardy wants us to play the type of ball that some of those guards are not wired to play.
3) Our key bigs are not very good at ball handling or passing, which generates turnovers and puts extra pressure on those subpar guards.

Funny stat of the day though:
In games where we have 20 or less TO we are 2-8
In games where we have 21+ TOs we are 3-3 (in fairness, all the losses here are 16-17 point blowouts)

JC/THT/KO/Dunn are just turnover machines this year. Key with his recent game is not far behind. Its a deadly combo of lack of shooting and lack of good passers.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

This is the second season in a row of being terrible at turnovers. Either its a player issue or a coaching issue, but either way its a huge issue! Then when you look at us not only turning the ball over the most in the NBA this year and 2nd worst last year we give up a the most off those points. We also hardly get any turnovers and get any points for those. This is easily one of the biggest reasons for our offense and defense sucking. Its huge point difference every game.

The Jazz lack efficient individual shot creators and they lack strong ball-handlers. It's only a coaching issue if you want Hardy to just tell the team to pass less and shoot earlier in the shot clock.

And the Jazz defend off turnovers just fine, so that's not really an issue. They have a top 5 transition defense according to NBA.com

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

JC/THT/KO/Dunn are just turnover machines this year. Key with his recent game is not far behind. Its a deadly combo of lack of shooting and lack of good passers.

The Jazz dont really lack shooting though. They are 17th in % and 9th in makes. It's not great shooting, but the shooting isnt the root cause of these issues.

It's really just the fact that the Jazz dont have an efficient indivudal shot creator. The Jazz players have to work pretty hard to create their own shot and you combine that with most of them just being bad at dribbling, it leads to a lot of turnovers.

If Lauri, our best player, could actually playmake to any degree, it would help out a ton, he can't though so you have guys like Clarkson (loose handle) and THT (extremely loose handle) trying to create. Then you have a rookie who is obviously just going to do dumb stuff from time to time. Then you have Sexton who likes to overpenetrate. .

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The Jazz dont really lack shooting though. They are 17th in % and 9th in makes. It's not great shooting, but the shooting isnt the root cause of these issues.

It's really just the fact that the Jazz dont have an efficient indivudal shot creator. The Jazz players have to work pretty hard to create their own shot and you combine that with most of them just being bad at dribbling, it leads to a lot of turnovers.

If Lauri, our best player, could actually playmake to any degree, it would help out a ton, he can't though so you have guys like Clarkson (loose handle) and THT (extremely loose handle) trying to create. Then you have a rookie who is obviously just going to do dumb stuff from time to time. Then you have Sexton who likes to overpenetrate. .

I am thinking more in the starting lineups. Like if you have THT with Kessler and Collins in the same lineup it is going to encourage teams to leave guys and muck things up. If we had great shooting around some of our iffy guard play it might be okayish instead of atrocious. Slide Dunn into some of those lineups and it gets worse.

Its really a confluence of many of the things mentioned. It seemed to get better with the lineup with Key as a starter and Collins as the 5. IDK all these issues were pretty easy to see happening to start the year. Lots of finishers and no real playmakers.

JC was exceptionally sloppy and bricky to start the season so that didn't help.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I am thinking more in the starting lineups. Like if you have THT with Kessler and Collins in the same lineup it is going to encourage teams to leave guys and muck things up. If we had great shooting around some of our iffy guard play it might be okayish instead of atrocious. Slide Dunn into some of those lineups and it gets worse.

Its really a confluence of many of the things mentioned. It seemed to get better with the lineup with Key as a starter and Collins as the 5. IDK all these issues were pretty easy to see happening to start the year. Lots of finishers and no real playmakers.

JC was exceptionally sloppy and bricky to start the season so that didn't help.

Pretty sure the turnover issue has persisted with Walker out and the starting lineup being full of pretty good shooting.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

If you look at low turnover teams the usual commonality is having individual shot creators. If you are a team based on ball/player movement, you are going to get a lot of turnovers.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

It feels like a lot of our turnovers are due to guys not processing the game fast enough. For example Simone swinging it from the corner to the wing when the wing was already being guarded leading to an easy steal. In some cases we pass it right to the other team. I guess we have a lot of ball handling turnovers as well.

It's pretty frustrating as a fan. Having turnovers off of passes through tight windows that would have led to easy baskets is ok. Having turnovers off of basic passes makes me feel like I'm watching my son's first grade basketball team try and pass.

 

[homeytennis]

One of our players commented on how complex the Jazz offense is. If there are a bunch of players thinking rather than reacting there will probably be bunches of TOs.

 

[framer]

I didn't see that in the new Orleans game. I just saw bad offense with more passing.

No because you generally turn the game off once Sexton starts playing well. . .