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Obama vs. Beantown

moevillini said:
Therefore, Bean, because many of us see "marriage" as something that establishes a relationship between PEOPLE and not as a "contract for services" (so to speak) we do not accept your arguments. Does that make sense?

If you'd like to argue that marriage is a "contract for services" or something of that nature, then that is a rather different issue.

I have never said anything about "contract for services" I am merrely point out that heterosexual relations have a bigger impact on our species than homosexual relations. Moe, please answer me these following questions:

#1. Why are homosexual relations not shown physically in their sexual anatomy?( It is definatly seen in heterosexuals, which came from biological means)

#2 Why are homosexuals not the dominating relationship of our species? Why is it that they are pushing for equality rather than heterosexuals?
 
Beantown,

I'll take your utter silence on all of my many well-schooled points on this issue (human neoteny, female genital morphology, reproduction statistics, etc.) as a sign that somewhere in this world you are groveling at my feet.
By the way, I'm paid plenty of money to know what I'm talking about when it comes to human evolution and evolutionary theory. I think you should know that you are dealing with someone who is certifiably an "expert".

I nominate this as the best post of this thread (which may not be sayin much, but still...)! "Grovelin at my feet!" That ROCKS, sho nuff. It been a good long spell since I've come across a post with such frank self-disclosure, such devasting insight, and such indisputable demonstration that someone as just been "pwned," ya know!
 
I nominate this as the best post of this thread (which may not be sayin much, but still...)! "Grovelin at my feet!" That ROCKS, sho nuff. It been a good long spell since I've come across a post with such frank self-disclosure, such devasting insight, and such indisputable demonstration that someone as just been "pwned," ya know!

Post less often.
 
I have never said anything about "contract for services" I am merrely point out that heterosexual relations have a bigger impact on our species than homosexual relations. Moe, please answer me these following questions:

#1. Why are homosexual relations not shown physically in their sexual anatomy?( It is definatly seen in heterosexuals, which came from biological means)

#2 Why are homosexuals not the dominating relationship of our species? Why is it that they are pushing for equality rather than heterosexuals?

Bean - I would tend to agree with you that heterosexual relationships probably have a bigger impact on our species than homosexual relations, but I really don't know for sure. Nor am I able to quantify this.

From stuff I've looked up, or that has been posted by others, or just that I've learned over the years, it seems apparent to me that in humans, as well as other animals, homosexual behavior between individuals has a role to play in society. For one thing, we really don't know how sexual behavior evolved, and recent research has shown that homosexual behaviors may have indeed played an important role in animal development.

At any rate, one thing I do believe is that the type of sexual activity that two adults engage in should not be the grounds to determine whether or not those two adults should be able to marry. The fact that your sperm can mate with your wife's egg without any assistance from anyone else is great for you and your wife.

But I don't think that fact should give you a right that two other adults who don't have that capability would be denied, simply because their bodies don't work the same way. That is the issue we are discussing here, I thought.

As to your questions, the first one makes absolutely no sense to me. Honestly, I have no idea what is meant by "homosexual relations not shown physically in their sexual anatomy" - that statement could be written in Chinese characters and I would understand it no less than I understand the English words you've written. I'm sorry, I just can't answer that because I have no clue whatsoever what you're asking.

As to the second question, I'd say it's not the dominating relationship because the majority of people are primarily heterosexual. If the majority of people were primarily homosexual in their orientation, then it would be the dominant relationship. But again, to my mind, this is not the central issue to determine whether or not two people of the same sex should have the legal right to marry.
 
There are plenty of theories out there on homosexuality and its existence. But all the theories out there do not effect these following FACTS about homosexuality. These three are what I base my opinions on.

#1 They cannot reproduce or add to genetic diversity
#2 They cannot engange in sexual intercourse
#3 Heterosexuality can be seen physically in sexual anatomy between male and females, this is not case for homosexuals

So if you have any information that changes these facts then fine. But so far nobody has provided anything. If you have info about homosexual reprodcution or physical changes in sexual anatomy in homosexuals then please do so.

Again I am for protecting and respecting the power of reproduction and the process of sexual intercourse only experienced in heterosexual relations.

Are you even reading the MANY responses I've given to YOUR BLOODY THREAD?!?!?

As far as #1 is concerned, I've ALREADY mentioned that the vast majority of homosexual people actually DO reproduce in their lifetimes. If you were to do even a measly 4 hours of research on this topic which you claim to know so much about -- and on a specific point that you admit is CENTRAL to your own argument -- then you would know you are W-R-O-N-G. And there is an added irony here: because homosexual humans do often participate in procreation, they, by sheer dint of THEIR OWN DIFFERENCE, have a greater impact on DIVERSITY (at least when compared your white-bread ***).

As far as #2 is concerned: Not only do they not NEED to engage in sexual intercourse to participate in conception in today's technological climate, that doesn't mean that many of them don't/haven't. The United States has a very polarizing sexual climate for homosexuality (in relation to the rest of human history); there are/have been many cultures (e.g. Tahiti, in the past) where homosexuals both desire and do what it takes to have a baby. This is incontrovertible truth. Again, you are W-R-O-N-G. Your stance is built on the polarizing view of PURE HOMOSEXUALITY, which, simply, is idiotic and doesn't exist empirically. It's an idea in your head.

As far as #3 is concerned: Once again, I have already brought up a point against this with my statements on female genital morphology (which Gameface also talks about without referencing my post). In case my words are too fancy for you, let me put it to you this way: your penetration of a female does very little to stimulate her erogenous zones. Remember when I talked about how there was a theory that females might be built for female-to-female contact? Do you know what a ****oris is? Do you know where it is? As for males, a ***** is not a complicated tool. There doesn't seem to be any problem satisfying it. Here is more evolutionary background for you: matrilineal connections play a very important part in primate social structure and mating habits -- in other words, the powerful females control A LOT. There is empirical data that strongly suggests that sexual contact between females in this "political" triangulation is incredibly important not only to the subordinate's survival, but ESPECIALLY to her offspring. THEREFORE, female-to-female sexual would be evolutionarily advantageous. Their morphology (i.e. body structure) bears the stamp of this behavior. (This is a rushed/sloppy version of the story, but, there it is).

I don't know how I can make this clearer for you. I had (before you posted this crap above) ALREADY listed each of these arguments! DUDE, YOU ARE JUST PLAIN WRONG ABOUT THIS. I wish I knew you well enough to have sympathy for your situation; you are clearly the product of a religio-political milieu that lacks imagination and information.

Last thing, all of this which I've just typed out, is just about the social and biological data that articulate with one another. I could write another diatribe about how your politics are screwy, but I honestly don't have the time for you anymore.
 
Are you even reading the MANY responses I've given to YOUR BLOODY THREAD?!?!?

As far as #1 is concerned, I've ALREADY mentioned that the vast majority of homosexual people actually DO reproduce in their lifetimes. If you were to do even a measly 4 hours of research on this topic which you claim to know so much about -- and on a specific point that you admit is CENTRAL to your own argument -- then you would know you are W-R-O-N-G. And there is an added irony here: because homosexual humans do often participate in procreation, they, by sheer dint of THEIR OWN DIFFERENCE, have a greater impact on DIVERSITY (at least when compared your white-bread ***).

As far as #2 is concerned: Not only do they not NEED to engage in sexual intercourse to participate in conception in today's technological climate, that doesn't mean that many of them don't/haven't. The United States has a very polarizing sexual climate for homosexuality (in relation to the rest of human history); there are/have been many cultures (e.g. Tahiti, in the past) where homosexuals both desire and do what it takes to have a baby. This is incontrovertible truth. Again, you are W-R-O-N-G. Your stance is built on the polarizing view of PURE HOMOSEXUALITY, which, simply, is idiotic and doesn't exist empirically. It's an idea in your head.

As far as #3 is concerned: Once again, I have already brought up a point against this with my statements on female genital morphology (which Gameface also talks about without referencing my post). In case my words are too fancy for you, let me put it to you this way: your penetration of a female does very little to stimulate her erogenous zones. Remember when I talked about how there was a theory that females might be built for female-to-female contact? Do you know what a ****oris is? Do you know where it is? As for males, a ***** is not a complicated tool. There doesn't seem to be any problem satisfying it. Here is more evolutionary background for you: matrilineal connections play a very important part in primate social structure and mating habits -- in other words, the powerful females control A LOT. There is empirical data that strongly suggests that sexual contact between females in this "political" triangulation is incredibly important not only to the subordinate's survival, but ESPECIALLY to her offspring. THEREFORE, female-to-female sexual would be evolutionarily advantageous. Their morphology (i.e. body structure) bears the stamp of this behavior. (This is a rushed/sloppy version of the story, but, there it is).

I don't know how I can make this clearer for you. I had (before you posted this crap above) ALREADY listed each of these arguments! DUDE, YOU ARE JUST PLAIN WRONG ABOUT THIS. I wish I knew you well enough to have sympathy for your situation; you are clearly the product of a religio-political milieu that lacks imagination and information.

Last thing, all of this which I've just typed out, is just about the social and biological data that articulate with one another. I could write another diatribe about how your politics are screwy, but I honestly don't have the time for you anymore.

Let me know when a homosexual relationship creates life and I will agree they are equal to heterosexual relations.
 
Let me know when a homosexual relationship creates life and I will agree they are equal to heterosexual relations.

Interesting that you advocate that a 50 year old forcibly marrying a 13 year old should be more recognizable than two consenting same sex adults.

Very interesting.
 
Interesting that you advocate that a 50 year old forcibly marrying a 13 year old should be more recognizable than two consenting same sex adults.

Very interesting.

This discussion is based on two consenting adults. I thought that was a given but I guess not. Of course I do not support forcible marriage.
 
New_Anonymity_Old_Sage,

You seem very knowledgeable and very biased in your research/conclusions. I can't seem to put my finger on why. Maybe it's your God complex, your conclusive posturing followed by your "know what you don't know" contradiction, or your over-the-top belief in all that seems radical. I don't know. Either way, I imagine people would be more inclined to give you the time of day if you didn't come across as lop-sided and results driven. Results driven tends to make for bad science, as the flat earth crowd found.
 
This discussion is based on two consenting adults. I thought that was a given but I guess not. Of course I do not support forcible marriage.

No, your argument has only been that heterosexual relationships are better than homosexual relationships solely because one produces offspring.
 
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