Obamacare, explained.

[NAOS]

You think too hard. I'm saying it's too expensive to hire people so I go with the minimum. If it wasn't so expensive, I'd hire more. It's not real hard and certainly nothing nefarious.

I think he asked some good questions. I'm curious about your answers....

 

[NAOS]

I mean, as a business man who is buying labor, if that commodity is too expensive, then I'd expect some creative thinking with respect to bringing that down to a more profitable point. In other words, "hard thinking".

 

[Gameface]

So what is your suggested solution?

You know, it's quite possible there aren't any good solutions here.

Health care is expensive. A single payer system doesn't change that one bit. We're constantly pushing the limits of what we can do with medicine and pushing it forward at an ever accelerating rate. Then we demand the benefits of that progress immediately. That's crazy expensive. there's no magic bullet to fix that cold hard fact. So we can hide the expense from the individual citizens through single payer, or we can force employees to offer coverage at the expense of their growth and employment levels, or we could have everyone pay for their own coverage out of their own pocket. The cost doesn't change overall. The problem is the cost, not how we pay that cost.

 

[Dr. Jones]

My hard thinking was directed at making my companies more efficient, so that fewer people were required to get the job done. I see multitudes of opportunities of additional profit centers, but the cost of good labor makes the pursuit of those profits much too risky. I do come up with ways around some of the labor costs, but it's certainly not easy.

I don't have any real solutions for you guys, sorry. Just because I said the cost of labor is much more expensive than the average person realizes, doesn't make it my responsibility to bring a solution to the table. And, I'm not even really complaining about those costs .. but it makes it extremely easy to see why huge corporations take parts of their businesses into foreign countries.

 

[Dr. Jones]

You know, it's quite possible there aren't any good solutions here.

Health care is expensive. A single payer system doesn't change that one bit. We're constantly pushing the limits of what we can do with medicine and pushing it forward at an ever accelerating rate. Then we demand the benefits of that progress immediately. That's crazy expensive. there's no magic bullet to fix that cold hard fact. So we can hide the expense from the individual citizens through single payer, or we can force employees to offer coverage at the expense of their growth and employment levels, or we could have everyone pay for their own coverage out of their own pocket. The cost doesn't change overall. The problem is the cost, not how we pay that cost.

This is pretty much what I'm saying.

 

[SaltyDawg]

You know, it's quite possible there aren't any good solutions here.

Health care is expensive. A single payer system doesn't change that one bit. We're constantly pushing the limits of what we can do with medicine and pushing it forward at an ever accelerating rate. Then we demand the benefits of that progress immediately. That's crazy expensive. there's no magic bullet to fix that cold hard fact. So we can hide the expense from the individual citizens through single payer, or we can force employees to offer coverage at the expense of their growth and employment levels, or we could have everyone pay for their own coverage out of their own pocket. The cost doesn't change overall. The problem is the cost, not how we pay that cost.

We're paying more for health care than just about any other western nation, so there must be something we can do.

 

[Dr. Jones]

We're paying more for health care than just about any other western nation, so there must be something we can do.

Maybe not much without compromising the quality. Healthcare professionals know they can charge a ton because nearly everyone has insurance. Insurance companies compensate by charging higher premiums. We could reverse that, but it would likely result in a slightly lower quality of medicine .. though I'm not sure about that.

There just doesn't seem to be many cost controls in the healthcare industry (that was too broad of stroke, but humor me) and it's a self-perpetuating problem that has the average American with burden of the result.

 

[Scat]

https://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/11/07/vegas-employer-obama-won-so-i-fired-22-employees/

 

[Gameface]

We're paying more for health care than just about any other western nation, so there must be something we can do.

We're innovating more than the rest of them too. That's expensive, especially when everyone demands that brand spanking new quality of life and/or life saving treatment/device/medicine as soon as possible. So yeah, let's roll back the clock 20 years and use that as our standard of care and the prices we pay will put Europe to shame. Of course many will die or have a much lower quality of life. So, do we want to save money and prevent economic collapse or do we want to save lives? It's a real question.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I didn't like the way the article was written ... seemed almost juvenile.. but I can identify to some degree. It's written very poorly though, so I'll just say I disagree to avoid the arguments that would ensue.

 

[SaltyDawg]

My hard thinking was directed at making my companies more efficient, so that fewer people were required to get the job done. I see multitudes of opportunities of additional profit centers, but the cost of good labor makes the pursuit of those profits much too risky. I do come up with ways around some of the labor costs, but it's certainly not easy.

I don't have any real solutions for you guys, sorry. Just because I said the cost of labor is much more expensive than the average person realizes, doesn't make it my responsibility to bring a solution to the table. And, I'm not even really complaining about those costs .. but it makes it extremely easy to see why huge corporations take parts of their businesses into foreign countries.

So then if we had socialized health care, like almost every other civilized nation, companies would be less likely to send jobs over seas?

I really think "job creators" life yourself need to stop dodging this and start looking for solutions.

From what you're saying, it sounds like you agree that our current system is fundamentally flawed. And if you're one if the people tasked with actually providing health care to people (one of the "job creators"), then that is a pretty big deal.

If health care is too expensive for "job creators" to provide it going forward, then we have to figure out an alternative before it's too late.

Democrats have proposed a single payer system, dubbed Medicare for all. Republicans proposed Obamacare, and then disavowed it when the democrats compromised to accept it.

I haven't heard a viable solution from any prominent republican. All I've heard is "repeal Obamacare" with no alternative presented.

 

[Dr. Jones]

We're innovating more than the rest of them too. That's expensive, especially when everyone demands that brand spanking new quality of life and/or life saving treatment/device/medicine as soon as possible. So yeah, let's roll back the clock 20 years and use that as our standard of care and the prices we pay will put Europe to shame. Of course many will die or have a much lower quality of life. So, do we want to save money and prevent economic collapse or do we want to save lives? It's a real question.

I think we would be just fine slowing down the pace of R&D and general advancement of medicine. Our quality of medicine is fine and a normal growth curve is adequate vs. an exaggerated one.

 

[Hartsock]

Maybe not much without compromising the quality. Healthcare professionals know they can charge a ton because nearly everyone has insurance. Insurance companies compensate by charging higher premiums. We could reverse that, but it would likely result in a slightly lower quality of medicine .. though I'm not sure about that.

There just doesn't seem to be many cost controls in the healthcare industry (that was too broad of stroke, but humor me) and it's a self-perpetuating problem that has the average American with burden of the result.

There should be a way to control this because it is basically price gouging. There is no easy answer or we would have a solution but there has to be an answer somewhere

 

[Scat]

I didn't like the way the article was written ... seemed almost juvenile.. but I can identify to some degree. It's written very poorly though, so I'll just say I disagree to avoid the arguments that would ensue.

It's a written transcript of a call so it was simply printed as recorded.

 

[SaltyDawg]

We're innovating more than the rest of them too. That's expensive, especially when everyone demands that brand spanking new quality of life and/or life saving treatment/device/medicine as soon as possible. So yeah, let's roll back the clock 20 years and use that as our standard of care and the prices we pay will put Europe to shame. Of course many will die or have a much lower quality of life. So, do we want to save money and prevent economic collapse or do we want to save lives? It's a real question.

Are we really innovating more than everyone else? I know it's common for people to say this, but then I see Kobe and other sports stars going to South Korea and other nations to get career extending surgeries and treatments that aren't available in the USA.

Plus our heart disease, cancer, and other numbers don't compare favorably with many other western nations.

 

[NAOS]

My hard thinking was directed at making my companies more efficient, so that fewer people were required to get the job done. I see multitudes of opportunities of additional profit centers, but the cost of good labor makes the pursuit of those profits much too risky. I do come up with ways around some of the labor costs, but it's certainly not easy.

I don't have any real solutions for you guys, sorry. Just because I said the cost of labor is much more expensive than the average person realizes, doesn't make it my responsibility to bring a solution to the table. And, I'm not even really complaining about those costs .. but it makes it extremely easy to see why huge corporations take parts of their businesses into foreign countries.

When LA-based businesses were struggling because of the costs and availability of water, they got together and made water a public utility. Everybody sharing costs, driving down the prices, making it easier to start and run businesses. (Sure, some rich people who controlled water got divested of some holdings, but should a small number of people control something like water? Should a collection of people who desire something be prevented from collectively owning it at a lower cost? I'm sure the rich controllers will invest in public opinion and laws that would prevent them from doing so...).

I think small business owners should be collectively interested in making health care more of a public utility. I'm also sure that the mega-retailers and insurance companies that stand to benefit from the current iteration of the Act will continue to fan the flames of 'govt doesnt wrk cuz its stupid okbyelolz."

 

[Dr. Jones]

So then if we had socialized health care, like almost every other civilized nation, companies would be less likely to send jobs over seas?

I really think "job creators" life yourself need to stop dodging this and start looking for solutions.

From what you're saying, it sounds like you agree that our current system is fundamentally flawed. And if you're one if the people tasked with actually providing health care to people (one of the "job creators"), then that is a pretty big deal.

If health care is too expensive for "job creators" to provide it going forward, then we have to figure out an alternative before it's too late.

Democrats have proposed a single payer system, dubbed Medicare for all. Republicans proposed Obamacare, and then disavowed it when the democrats compromised to accept it.

I haven't heard a viable solution from any prominent republican. All I've heard is "repeal Obamacare" with no alternative presented.

Look, I just said it was expensive, that's it. It's a ridiculous and offensive notion that the 'job creators' have some moral obligation to provide the solution. I'm busy trying to keep my businesses going .. for my family and the families of those that work for me .. and I don't have time to also be lobbying for change, personally .. well, unless I give up JazzFanz. lol

We have so many labels and tons of packaged ideals .. when what we need is to have better cost controls. I'm not sure how to do that.

 

[Dr. Jones]

It's a written transcript of a call so it was simply printed as recorded.

Okay, then the caller (business owner) communicated his position like a ****ing moran.

 

[Gameface]

Are we really innovating more than everyone else? I know it's common for people to say this, but then I see Kobe and other sports stars going to South Korea and other nations to get career extending surgeries and treatments that aren't available in the USA.

Plus our heart disease, cancer, and other numbers don't compare favorably with many other western nations.

I'm not trying to take anything away from what people are doing overseas. We don't own the market on innovation. We are, however, subsidizing innovation throughout the world by paying such high prices here.

 

[NAOS]

add to my other posts:

questioning and criticizing the kinds of care mainstream medicine provides is a key part of this issue. It is tied to costs, but costs will never be brought under control as long as we distrust government (or what govt can do) and continue to cow to huge retailers and insurers. Period.