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Game Thread Oct 02, 2022 04:00PM MT: Jazz at Raptors (Preseason)

Added to Calendar: 10-02-22

Handlogten's Heros said:
That's what I was getting at with KO know how to play. Its tough when the guy misses all his shots to say he looked really good... but he gets space with little ball fakes and stuff that is kinda tricky. Also noted he spots up like 3 feet behind the line to pull the defense out a bit more and also gives him the chance to pump fake and then step into a three... instead of a long two.

He has control and just knows how to play. There is value to having those guys on the floor with the young ones. He just missed a bunch of makeable shots. But looked like one of the only guys with a plan. Its the thing that drives me nuts about a guy like NAW. He just is kinda doing stuff with no real end or intention (it seems).
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NAW has performance anxiety (same w/ Butler too). I actually thought he looked really good defensively. He's kind of Dante Exum-ish in some ways, but obviously a better spot-up threat. The issue is he just gets downhill and he has no idea what to do and kind of panics into a mistake.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Did Gay look that washed? I know he missed the dunk, but even attempting the dunk he attempted is pretty impressive at his age.
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I would say he looked pretty washed last season, and he looked exactly the same last night as he did last season.
 
Jingled said:
I just don't think playing Gay to increase his value is going to do any good at all...he just looks completely washed. I hope the Jazz can just come to terms with that before the season starts. I am not going to be a happy camper if I have to watch Gay and NAW play while Fontecchio and Ochai ride the pine most of the season.
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I don't either. I thought he moved okay out there... better than last year... but his play didn't seem super team oriented. He had one grab and go where he pulled up for a ****** three for no reason and I was just out at that point. If he is going to do that stuff its better not to have him around.

I need Ochai out there. He needs 15 minutes a night to marinate. Even if its a gift 15 minutes.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I don't either. I thought he moved okay out there... better than last year... but his play didn't seem super team oriented. He had one grab and go where he pulled up for a ****** three for no reason and I was just out at that point. If he is going to do that stuff its better not to have him around.

I need Ochai out there. He needs 15 minutes a night to marinate. Even if its a gift 15 minutes.
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That's been his MO his entire career though. Remember when he was at his peak w/ the Grizzlies then they traded him for basically nothing and got way better. That's why I always hated the move because the Jazz are supposed to be the ball movement quick decision team and we got one of the slower decision makers in the NBA w/ Rudy Gay.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
NAW has performance anxiety (same w/ Butler too). I actually thought he looked really good defensively. He's kind of Dante Exum-ish in some ways, but obviously a better spot-up threat. The issue is he just gets downhill and he has no idea what to do and kind of panics into a mistake.
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He does seem to move really well... like JC kinda. I just don't see the skillset to be something awesome on ball. He actually was useable last year when we treated him like PJ Tucker... just hide in the corners and play defense. Then one night he decided to go Leroy Jenkins on a couple plays and Quin pulled him and he was never heard from again.

Get these guys some viagra so they ain't so worried about performance.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
That's been his MO his entire career though. Remember when he was at his peak w/ the Grizzlies then they traded him for basically nothing and got way better. That's why I always hated the move because the Jazz are supposed to be the ball movement quick decision team and we got one of the slower decision makers in the NBA w/ Rudy Gay.
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He had kinda changed and I hoped he'd be fully in the Vince Carter role player mode last year and this year. Had hoped a year of being healthy would help too. I just don't see a great attitude and I think this using 15-20 minutes a night to get his value up may do the opposite.

At the same time none of the guys on the bubble inspired any confidence so if we cut JB, Lee, Doke or Stanley I'm not like super sad. So maybe you keep him and hope to dump his deal in a move later. IDK... I just wish we had him and THT off of next year's cap sheet.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
He does seem to move really well... like JC kinda. I just don't see the skillset to be something awesome on ball. He actually was useable last year when we treated him like PJ Tucker... just hide in the corners and play defense. Then one night he decided to go Leroy Jenkins on a couple plays and Quin pulled him and he was never heard from again.

Get these guys some viagra so they ain't so worried about performance.
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I think NAW could have been good in the older Quin offenses where there was actual ball movement and the whole "blender" concept when they really ran that stuff to perfection.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
He had kinda changed and I hoped he'd be fully in the Vince Carter role player mode last year and this year. Had hoped a year of being healthy would help too. I just don't see a great attitude and I think this using 15-20 minutes a night to get his value up may do the opposite.

At the same time none of the guys on the bubble inspired any confidence so if we cut JB, Lee, Doke or Stanley I'm not like super sad. So maybe you keep him and hope to dump his deal in a move later. IDK... I just wish we had him and THT off of next year's cap sheet.
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Did he change or did he just go to SA where they were actually running the ball-stopping, mid-range work type offense he could excel in without disrupting an offensive flow.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Did he change or did he just go to SA where they were actually running the ball-stopping, mid-range work type offense he could excel in without disrupting an offensive flow.
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Honestly? I watched like 4 SA games a year... when they played the Jazz... so who knows I guess. I think he had shot more catch and shoot threes and stuff though... so some changes.
 
Jingled said:
Maybe. I'm just super skeptical that he's going to do anything to actually help his trade value at this point, so I'd much rather just give his minutes to the young guys.
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Oh, there is no way his trade value can be increased. Teams will want him for the vet minimum if someone waives him. His value is purely salary matching.
 
I'm sure someone like Gay probably looks better than the young guys in a training camp setting so you have to play him early on then you can bench him later when it becomes obvious his style of play is a negative for the team.

Remember Will Hardy is a 34 year old rookie coach. He just can't bench veterans if they are indeed looking better than their young counterparts in training camp.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I'm sure someone like Gay probably looks better than the young guys in a training camp setting so you have to play him early on then you can bench him later when it becomes obvious his style of play is a negative for the team.

Remember Will Hardy is a 34 year old rookie coach. He just can't bench veterans if they are indeed looking better than their young counterparts in training camp.
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I thought of that too. Gay and Conley are both several years older than Hardy.
 
HeatCheck said:
I thought of that too. Gay and Conley are both several years older than Hardy.
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I think Conley and Hardy are the same age, but yes, Gay is a couple years older.

Really weird situation.

I dont have great vibes w/ the Will Hardy signing. Quin Snyder was really inspiring from the jump. Hardy is kind of just bland. He's got a 5 year contract though so he will have time to develop.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I think Conley and Hardy are the same age, but yes, Gay is a couple years older.

Really weird situation.

I dont have great vibes w/ the Will Hardy signing. Quin Snyder was really inspiring from the jump. Hardy is kind of just bland. He's got a 5 year contract though so he will have time to develop.
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The way he talks I am just not sure he has a philosophy or plan. Noticed a lot of switching and the defensive rotations actually looked good in the first half.

First 10-20 games will be a jumbled mess... just hoping to see some sort of outline of a plan/philosophy/mindset. He has seemed "flexible" in his interviews but I wonder if that is just not being committed to a particular theme.

Coaching is really hard to assess... unless its obviously horrible... sometimes even great coaching is misdiagnosed because the players are just actually really good. I like that they went with a young guy because I think there is more upside in landing the next good young coach than getting an okayish retread.
 
Jingled said:
Uh...Ainge doesn't want to be good this season, he wants to lose as many games as possible so that we can get the best draft pick possible. Obviously, he would've just kept Bogey if the goal was to be good this season.
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Still....that fails to answer the question of why they gave him away for nothing. In my mind, we get an F- for the Bogey trade which cancels out either the Minnesota or Cleveland deal.
 
I think the Bogey trade just came down to a numbers game. With the acquisitions of younger players those minutes needed to go LM, Vandy and others. I agree we gave him away but shows just how tank mode we really are.
 
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