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Off-Season Moves after Hayward saga

franklin said:
Most the people I talk to outside the interwebs think we should bring on some more vets to pressure the young guys to earn their minutes. It builds character having better players in front of you like Marvin and Richard to chase down.
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That is a good point, as long as the veterans aren't taking minutes they shouldn't be getting. That seems to be the status quo with the jazz over the past, well, forever. If we can sign a vet that won't cause issues by not getting a ton of burn, and the young players actually get the minutes they earn (rather than just giving veterans minutes because they have played in the league longer).
 
franklin said:
Most the people I talk to outside the interwebs think we should bring on some more vets to pressure the young guys to earn their minutes. It builds character having better players in front of you like Marvin and Richard to chase down.
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Yes, I agree. Corbin was trying to build character by playing RJ and MW in front of Burks and Kanter. :rolleyes:
Is it too late to trade for Lin so he can play ahead of Burke? And Exum...he's totally not ready for the NBA. Neither is Hood. Does Dennis still have Raja's number? Rookies are going to commit rookie mistakes, make rookie TO's and the refs are not going to give them any calls. So let them develop in practice, because that's where to do it. You don't get better by playing actual games against players with different skill sets, different offensive and defensive strengths and weaknesses. You get better in practice, doing drills and going against the same teammate(s) over and over again.

Look at the mess OKC became by throwing their rookies into the fire right away.
Maybe that kid Kawhi over in SA will be ready for 20 mins/per by his 4th season.
 
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franklin said:
Most the people I talk to outside the interwebs think we should bring on some more vets to pressure the young guys to earn their minutes. It builds character having better players in front of you like Marvin and Richard to chase down.
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You should really stop talking to people outside JazzFanz!!!
 
Hotttnickkk said:
We won't have any money left after the Hayward signing - that's the whole point (taking into account what we'll have to pay Burks and Kanter later on)
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First, it would be awesome if Kanter and Burks had great years worthy of large contracts. (this is unknown, you are assuming it to be true).

If that happens, the Jazz need to decide whether to make these guys one of the 2-3 highly compensated players they are going to have on the roster, or if they let them walk (not worth market value), or sign and trade.

The Jazz have many good options if these guys improve.

If they don't improve then their contracts will be much lower, and the Jazz have the same set of options, although the value of retaining these players falls.
 
Core4 said:
And the same with Enes. Both will ask for the moon and Lindsey will decline. Then we'll all bitch about the short-sightedness of Dennis in not just giving them whatever they wanted before they get big offers during next season's free agency period.

Jazz should ONLY take on salary dumps at this point. There is no one out there who is a true impact player/building block that should get minutes ahead of any of the current roster players. Let's see if anyone becomes available at the deadline.

Burke (35), Exum (13)
Burks (30), Exum (12), Clark? (6)
Hayward (33), Hood (15)
Kanter (30), Favors (5), Novak (13)
Favors (28), Gobert (20)

Or cross out Clark and give minutes at the SG to Hayward and more time to Hood, etc. Or play Exum 30 mins/per. There are a lot of ways to go.

And I haven't even put in Evans!
As much as I like Marvin as a versatile backup, I think he's just too old to be brought back and take minutes away from the youngsters. Hood can provide the shooting Marvin provided at the 3. And Murphy should get a shot at the stretch-4.
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Good thinking. I had forgot about evans.
Evans > marvin (and cheaper i think)
Screw marvin. We have our team. Dont pick up anybody else unless they are third stringer or true star players
 
franklin said:
Most the people I talk to outside the interwebs think we should bring on some more vets to pressure the young guys to earn their minutes. It builds character having better players in front of you like Marvin and Richard to chase down.
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**** that!

How about they are professionals getting paid well and should work hard on thier own..... also the coach should be the one pushing them to earn minutes...... also they can push each other for minutes (exum competes with burks and trey for minutes, hood with hayward, gobert with favors/kanter, etc)
 
Core4 said:
Yes, I agree. Corbin was trying to build character by playing RJ and MW in front of Burks and Kanter. :rolleyes:
Is it too late to trade for Lin so he can play ahead of Burke? And Exum...he's totally not ready for the NBA. Neither is Hood. Does Dennis still have Raja's number? Rookies are going to commit rookie mistakes, make rookie TO's and the refs are not going to give them any calls. So let them develop in practice, because that's where to do it. You don't get better by playing actual games against players with different skill sets, different offensive and defensive strengths and weaknesses. You get better in practice, doing drills and going against the same teammate(s) over and over again.

Look at the mess OKC became by throwing their rookies into the fire right away.
Maybe that kid Kawhi over in SA will be ready for 20 mins/per by his 4th season.
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I'm just passing along what I hear from people outside the pigeonholing interwebs, who aren't obsessed with throwing games by playing young players like Alec and CJ over better veterans like Josh Howard and Marvin Williams.

Many of them have much more basketball experience than anyone here, so I tend to listen. Probably because they do not compare Enes Kanter to KD and Westbrook or Kawhi.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
You may want to check that 3pt% stat again.

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2
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Gordon has a better career average. Using one year that is much lower than all others does not make sense. Stockton had a year where he dipped from 36% to 24% the next year (and shot roughly 20%+- for his first 3 years). So is Alec a better shooter than stockton.

Does not make sense to use one year as a baseline when you have a larger sample.
 
franklin said:
I'm just passing along what I hear from people outside the pigeonholing interwebs, who aren't obsessed with throwing games by playing young players like Alec and CJ over better veterans like Josh Howard and Marvin Williams.

Many of them have much more basketball experience than anyone here, so I tend to listen. Probably because they do not compare Enes Kanter to KD and Westbrook or Kawhi.
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LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most people here are obsessed with actually having a team DEVELOP, not scratch out a few more wins so we can cheer for a 36 win team instead of a 30 win team. I think 90% of people would argue it's better to win 25 games and get the 4th seed than hang on to aging vets, finish with the 8th seed and get the 15th pick. Or, more likely, miss the playoffs and end up with the 14th selection as we did in 2012/13. Those teams are doomed to perpetual hell until they either decide to rebuild or are forced to when key players demand trades. Josh Howard...seriously? At LEAST Marvin was still young enough for Utah to take a chance on. There was a possibility of re-signing him this summer, particularly if the Jazz didn't get a SF in the draft or if Hayward was let go. But Howard? And RJ getting 27 mins/per? Good gawd...what exactly, did that accomplish? Did Ty really think he'd save his job by playing RJ that much? Was RJ EVER in the long-term plans of the Jazz?
 
AS for the roster:
Jazz have a couple of role-playing vets signed in JLIII and Novak. Why sign more at the expense of young players who may actually have some upside such as Clark and Murphy? Many other teams have had good success bringing in the best D-League talent to fill roster spots.

1. Favors, Kanter, Hayward, Burke, Burks, Gobert, Exum, Hood. Those 8 should get the bulk of the minutes.
2. Evans and Novak should also play some. Novak likely gets 10-15 on a regular basis, with Evans filling in as needed.
3. LucasIII. Really an assistant coach parading as a player. He won't play much but he'll stick on the roster.

So 11 roster spots are filled, with probably three openings left - maybe four. Jazz generally don't go with 15 but could until the end of December before contracts become fully guaranteed.

Murphy, Thomas and Clark have all shown promise. Jazz may also want to have another big with size, as both Favors and Kanter are both hybrids. Only Gobert is a true 5.

And can I add how much I LOVE Quin? I could listen to him talk basketball all day and night. He's another reason to go for youth over aging, marginal vets. In SUMMER LEAGUE practices, he takes the roster guys aside and has them work on spacing and P&R. Doesn't he know this is summer and half those guys are going to get cut so we can sign the Howards and Jeffersons of the league?

My bold prediction: Quin is going to be the Jazz coach for a long, long time. And players are going to WANT to stay in Utah to play for him. Sure, there will be a few who leave for "greener" pastures (i.e. the ones made green by an abundance of Benjamins). But there just might be some "hometown discounts" in Utah's future with a player's coach like Quin. I can already sense a great deal of respect for him by Burke, Hood and Exum. He was an great choice. And his youth, I believe, is an advantage in relating to players. Playing PG under Coach K carries a lot of cachet with young players coming in, especially the guards (and Hood as a "Dukie").
 
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Glad the Decision part 2 is over. Now Lindsey can get busy. If I were he I would....

Call Morey and get Jeremy Lin, and either Montijunas or Terrence Jones (why did he ever kick a homeless guy?) on their way to Utah with a future pick or picks.

Call PJ tucker and offer to over pay him to come play sf.

Call Fanz and have them put Hayward Jerseys on the 50% off rack.

Call Charlotte to see if they can't work out a Jeremy Evans for Gerald Henderson Trade.
 
JAZZGASM said:
Gordon has a better career average. Using one year that is much lower than all others does not make sense. Stockton had a year where he dipped from 36% to 24% the next year (and shot roughly 20%+- for his first 3 years). So is Alec a better shooter than stockton.

Does not make sense to use one year as a baseline when you have a larger sample.
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36% to 35% if you go career. You also can't throw out most recent because while the sample size is smaller, it's still pretty significant in terms of sample size, but also more relevant than using numbers from 3 years ago.

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2
 
JAZZGASM said:
Gordon has a better career average. Using one year that is much lower than all others does not make sense. Stockton had a year where he dipped from 36% to 24% the next year (and shot roughly 20%+- for his first 3 years). So is Alec a better shooter than stockton.

Does not make sense to use one year as a baseline when you have a larger sample.
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But it does make sense to look at trends. Hayward has been trending down..... burks has been trending up
 
So with the decision now revealed, can anyone explain why Cleveland was entertaining Hayward last week?

A favor to Bartlestein?
 
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