Official Fire Snyder / DL Thread

[That1UtahFan]

I don't know if it's a FO issue or a Quin issue but with the talks of lack of adjustments I can't help but think about what if we had the answers potentially sitting on our bench? I'm talking about the likes of Brantley/Morgan/Oni. What if one of Brantley or Morgan was the small ball 5 we needed when Gobert was getting schemed out. or Oni was the defensive stopper to come off the bench even for 5-10 minutes. Obviously last night wasn't the night to try it out but they should've been playing somewhat regularly throughout this season and last, so when the time comes for games like that you know if they are usable or not well in advance. The league requires instant results and in all honesty we should know by now if those players can be trusted or not. If not then ship em out/cut em they were cheap and there's plenty of cheap players out there that can fill a need. Roster spots are valuable.
Terance Mann was drafted 2 picks ahead of Brantley and 10 picks ahead of Oni and looked what happened last night. Sure no one was expecting him to be the hero. But he played enough throughout the past 2 years that he can be trusted on the biggest stage. He's played in more total games and almost 800 more minutes than those 2 combined. But because the Jazz don't give those players any meaningful minutes in the regular season we literally don't know how much or how little of a factor they could have been.
Again idk if things like that are a FO issue where DL is trying to protect his draft asset as much as possible and keep them in the G League away from prying eyes or if it's Quin who's so reluctant to try out players and change up from his rotation/system because it's not his way. But either way some of these questions need to be answered this summer.

 

[Ineptimusprime]

I don't know if it's a FO issue or a Quin issue but with the talks of lack of adjustments I can't help but think about what if we had the answers potentially sitting on our bench? I'm talking about the likes of Brantley/Morgan/Oni. What if one of Brantley or Morgan was the small ball 5 we needed when Gobert was getting schemed out. or Oni was the defensive stopper to come off the bench even for 5-10 minutes. Obviously last night wasn't the night to try it out but they should've been playing somewhat regularly throughout this season and last, so when the time comes for games like that you know if they are usable or not well in advance. The league requires instant results and in all honesty we should know by now if those players can be trusted or not. If not then ship em out/cut em they were cheap and there's plenty of cheap players out there that can fill a need. Roster spots are valuable.
Terance Mann was drafted 2 picks ahead of Brantley and 10 picks ahead of Oni and looked what happened last night. Sure no one was expecting him to be the hero. But he played enough throughout the past 2 years that he can be trusted on the biggest stage. He's played in more total games and almost 800 more minutes than those 2 combined. But because the Jazz don't give those players any meaningful minutes in the regular season we literally don't know how much or how little of a factor they could have been.
Again idk if things like that are a FO issue where DL is trying to protect his draft asset as much as possible and keep them in the G League away from prying eyes or if it's Quin who's so reluctant to try out players and change up from his rotation/system because it's not his way. But either way some of these questions need to be answered this summer.

Every guy you listed has proven himself not to be an NBA player. We always look like the worst team in the NBA in garbage minutes. Our roster outside of the 8-man is just complete garbage.

You move on and try your luck again with new recruits. One realistic thing we could do is clear out the back half of the roster completely (other than Doke and Hughes) without giving up a thing. Buy a couple second rounders, really think through the summer league roster, just cast the net again on the back half of the roster in hopes of finding a diamond in the rough.

Realistic possibilities I hope to see this summer:

1. Fire DL today.
2. Make a decision on Conley. I’d draw the line at 20mil, if it’s that or less than that, bring him back on what should be a tradeable contract so you don’t just lose the asset.
3. Niang, Oni, Brantley, Morgan, Forrest and Thomas all gone. Let’s clear the deck with the back half and try to find a rotational 3-D guy with one of these spots. We’ll probably need to buy some second round picks, maybe even the more expensive early second picks. There is no risk to doing this, because we already have the worst back end of the roster in the NBA. Everyone else’s scrubs always look so much better than ours.
4. Use no. 30 on a 3 and D wing player.
5. Scour the trade market for something that makes sense for one or some combination of Bogey, Clarkson, Ingles, or Favors.
6. Fill out the rest of the roster with the exceptions and minimum contracts.

In essence, put an adult in charge in management to make better decisions, and hope you get really lucky.

 

[That1UtahFan]

Every guy you listed has proven himself not to be an NBA player. You move on and try your luck in the lottery again.

I mean do we really though? Brantley has played 10+ minutes 6 times in his career. 3 of those were in the bubble last season before the playoffs started. Sure there's a good chance he might not be good by any stretch of the imagination but play them during the regular season and find that out that way it's not just a body filling up the bench. How many times this season when the game was firmly under control these players could've gotten minutes and just didn't. In a game the Jazz beat the Kings by 50 Brantley played 12 minutes, Oni played 9, Morgan played 6, Hughes played 3. And that was with no Conley & Mitchell. That simply just doesn't make sense to me. You let them play those games and you figure who can and can't play.

 

[Ineptimusprime]

I mean do we really though? Brantley has played 10+ minutes 6 times in his career. 3 of those were in the bubble last season before the playoffs started. Sure there's a good chance he might not be good by any stretch of the imagination but play them during the regular season and find that out that way it's not just a body filling up the bench. How many times this season when the game was firmly under control these players could've gotten minutes and just didn't. In a game the Jazz beat the Kings by 50 Brantley played 12 minutes, Oni played 9, Morgan played 6, Hughes played 3. And that was with no Conley & Mitchell. That simply just doesn't make sense to me. You let them play those games and you figure who can and can't play.

Or perhaps they aren’t playing much because it is so clear that they can’t play at this level.

Can someone give me an example of a time when our deep bench didn’t look outclassed entirely by another team’s deep bench in garbage minutes?

Can someone give me an example of a time someone on our deep bench did anything in garbage minutes that made you say “I wish we would play that guy more.”

 

[That1UtahFan]

Or perhaps they aren’t playing much because it is so clear that they can’t play at this level.

Can someone give me an example of a time when our deep bench didn’t look outclassed entirely by another team’s deep bench in garbage minutes?

Can someone give me an example of a time someone on our deep bench did anything in garbage minutes that made you say “I wish we would play that guy more.”

I'm in agreement with you if a player is not good enough get off the team but that's what I'm trying to figure out is why they are still there. My assumption is that the front office point of view would be they haven't played enough meaningful minutes and not just the 2-3 minutes at the end of a blowout when nobody is really giving a **** so they can't make a decision based off of just that but my question is why aren't they being played but still on the roster? What are they being saved for?

 

[Ineptimusprime]

I'm in agreement with you if a player is not good enough get off the team but that's what I'm trying to figure out is why they are still there. My assumption is that the front office point of view would be they haven't played enough meaningful minutes and not just the 2-3 minutes at the end of a blowout when nobody is really giving a **** so they can't make a decision based off of just that but my question is why aren't they being played but still on the roster? What are they being saved for?

Well, the FO is filled entirely with buffoons and should be out of a job in the next few days. Don’t care what they think about these guys. They are wrong more often than not.

I am taking a break from the Utah Jazz if we don’t clean house in the FO. I don’t trust them at all anymore.

 

[fishonjazz]

what kind of adjustment though?

people here talk about "adjustment this", "adjustment that", but never give out an actual adjustment that makes sense. Like how is playing Ersan or Morgan going to change this series when those guys barely make a difference in the regular season?

Try a zone? Clippers did. Clippers also tried playing guys like Batum and Mann more and it seemed to work. Maybe ersan or Morgan make a difference like Mann did. Mann didn't do **** in the regular season.

Maybe tell gobert to stop helping on defense and instead stick with his guy.

I mean just try something, anything.

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[fishonjazz]

Having Rudy on the floor leaves one guy wide open.

But not having Rudy on the floor would leave multiples guys wide open and offensive rebound opportunities.

I know damn well what the issue is with Rudy on the floor, but this team is not structured to play without Rudy. It just isn't.

To play without Rudy you need long 3D wings with rebounding ability and not having it is what killed us in this series, in Denver series and in Houston series. Because they all know damn well how to exploit Rudy's weakness by going small and we just don't have the necessary personnel to hold it together when we take Rudy out.

Imagine winning a playoff game without Rudy. Until we are capable of doing that, we will continue to get eliminated in the same exact fashion every year.

I think we won a playoff game a few years ago without Rudy. He got hurt or ejected or something early and we won.

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[Handlogten's Heros]

Why? He's clearly in over his head and continues to fail in adjusting mid-game. Why would anyone want him to stay?

In part because you can’t ask a repair man to fix your house but only give him 2-3 types of tools to do so. Quin didn’t have a big wing to make the adjustment to go small... this is not a new need... we have needed this for two seasons... we have had ample opportunity to make an acquisition... we have not done it. Can’t ask a plumber to fix the toilet and only give him hammers to do so.

 

[fishonjazz]

In part because you can’t ask a repair man to fix your house but only give him 2-3 types of tools to do so. Quin didn’t have a big wing to make the adjustment to go small... this is not a new need... we have needed this for two seasons... we have had ample opportunity to make an acquisition... we have not done it. Can’t ask a plumber to fix the toilet and only give him hammers to do so.

I mean we do have big wings on the roster doe. I have no idea if they would have been the answer but they exist on the roster.
Ersan, niang, and Brantley could all play as small ball 5's couldn't they?

I think I even recall you wishing quin would play Royce as a small ball 4 or 5 a couple years ago

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[Handlogten's Heros]

Try a zone? Clippers did. Clippers also tried playing guys like Batum and Mann more and it seemed to work. Maybe ersan or Morgan make a difference like Mann did. Mann didn't do **** in the regular season.

Maybe tell gobert to stop helping on defense and instead stick with his guy.

I mean just try something, anything.

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They went zone. Ty Lue has one of the deepest benches at his disposal. Mann played well during the season.

Quin needed to make an adjustment but the problem is all he really had at the end of the bench is Ersan. I would have loved for Brantley to play some during the season but he might suck. He’s like the only big bodied athlete Quin had at his disposal.

 

[slc]

I'm wondering what are Quins practice sessions are like
Does he even practice how to beat a zone
Does he even practice how to play small ball
Does he even practice how to play against any given situation
What does Quin do for practice sessions
Does anyone even know this info