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OKC or San Antonio?

"I'm your density," what's should be ours?

  • OKC

    Votes: 37 44.6%
  • San Antonio

    Votes: 22 26.5%
  • Please, let us get our picks!

    Votes: 24 28.9%

  • Total voters
    83
So what key pieces has Chicago added via the draft since they sneaked into the playoffs 3 years ago (with a .500 record mind you) as a 7th seed and pushed Boston to 7 games, that has now made them title contenders?

OKC was the same thing two years ago when the got in as the 8th seed.

Chicago is a big market, unlike us, and can attract good free agents, which is what they in fact did, while their young guys were developing.

OKC was starting their young core, we aren't. Like I said before, if our youngsters were leading us to the playoffs, then I would be happy.

Neither the Chicago or OKC situation (when they got the 8th seed years back) resembles how we are getting to the 8th seed.
 
Winning what? Regular season games? One game in the first round? Well, if you're honestly satisfied with that, then you must be a very happy man.

Would you answer my question already? This is the FOURTH time I have asked you: with the way this team is currently constructed, what do you logically view as the best method moving forward for us to become a contender?

That's been asked this entire season without answer. It finally evolved into Favors, Kanter, Burks, Hayward are the 2nd - 5th coming. It's back to winning culture blah now that neither of those 4 are sure fire All Stars.
 
Chicago is a big market, unlike us, and can attract good free agents, which is what they in fact did, while their young guys were developing.

OKC was starting their young core, we aren't. Like I said before, if our youngsters were leading us to the playoffs, then I would be happy.

Neither the Chicago or OKC situation (when they got the 8th seed years back) resembles how we are getting to the 8th seed.

I get your point, but we're talking about a 13th or 14th pick here. If the discussion was between playoffs and top 5 pick, then I'd be on your side.
 
I get your point, but we're talking about a 13th or 14th pick here. If the discussion was between playoffs and top 5 pick, then I'd be on your side.

That's the point...the 13th or 14th pick in this draft is like the 5th pick in a normal draft. I'm not just madly in love with this draft for no reason, every scout around the nation is, and has been for some time. If this situation was the same next year, then I would be rooting for us to make the playoffs, because a late lottery pick in that draft just isn't very good, IMO. The situation is different with this draft, and an opportunity to stockpile on talent like this won't come again. This is our window, and I'll be sad to see us miss it.
 
That's the point...the 13th or 14th pick in this draft is like the 5th pick in a normal draft. I'm not just madly in love with this draft for no reason, every scout around the nation is, and has been for some time. If this situation was the same next year, then I would be rooting for us to make the playoffs, because a late lottery pick in that draft just isn't very good, IMO. The situation is different with this draft, and an opportunity to stockpile on talent like this won't come again. This is our window, and I'll be sad to see us miss it.

I guess this what our disagreement boils down to. And I've started to hear the opposite, that draft guys are starting to say, besides Davis, that this draft isn't as epic as they lead us to believe earlier.

I view this draft as I view most drafts - after about #5, it's all a crapshoot.
 
That's the point...the 13th or 14th pick in this draft is like the 5th pick in a normal draft. I'm not just madly in love with this draft for no reason, every scout around the nation is, and has been for some time. If this situation was the same next year, then I would be rooting for us to make the playoffs, because a late lottery pick in that draft just isn't very good, IMO. The situation is different with this draft, and an opportunity to stockpile on talent like this won't come again. This is our window, and I'll be sad to see us miss it.

I'm not buying that the 13th-14th pick is that great this year. There are some good names, but none of which really made me think "I would love to have him on the Jazz". PJ3? Austin Rivers? Jeremy Lamb? Terrence Jones? They all may turn out to be stars, but they don't excite me right now. I'll stick to hoping the Jazz make the playoffs while Golden State holds off the other tanking teams and stays in Jazz territory.
 
Talent wins championships. This draft has more talent in it then any draft in recent memory before it, or in any draft expected to follow it for quite some time.

Talent does win championships. The thing is that we have a lot of talent on this team. What we don't have is playoff experience. I just don't see how someone can tell me with a straight face that another 12th-13th pick in the draft is going to be the difference maker. Even in this draft. It would be just another person that needs to develop over the next few years before they can really contribute.

You say that it's just another year and we can start that championship run next year. It just doesn't work that way. There are too many moving parts in an NBA team. Salary issues. Injury issues. Performance issues. You can't put all this momentum on hold and say "Next year is the year".

I would like to challenge you to come up with an example where this has worked for a team to tank their way to a championship. You believe that we should sacrifice our current success (or chance of success) for a possibility of a good player that becomes the difference maker. I assume if you're willing to root for your own team to lose that you must have some solid evidence that this works.

My recollection of championship teams are ones that do their due diligence and improve year after year until they get a chance at a championship.
 
I guess this what our disagreement boils down to. And I've started to hear the opposite, that draft guys are starting to say, besides Davis, that this draft isn't as epic as they lead us to believe earlier.

I view this draft as I view most drafts - after about #5, it's all a crapshoot.

I agree that the talent at the top of the draft, other than Davis, doesn't look as good as people were expecting. But as far as the depth of the 2012 draft goes, it's still remarkable, IMO. Worst case scenario, for me at least, with that 14th pick is Jeremy Lamb. Do most drafts have 13 players who are legitimately better than Jeremy Lamb?
 
Talent does win championships. The thing is that we have a lot of talent on this team. What we don't have is playoff experience. I just don't see how someone can tell me with a straight face that another 12th-13th pick in the draft is going to be the difference maker. Even in this draft. It would be just another person that needs to develop over the next few years before they can really contribute.

You say that it's just another year and we can start that championship run next year. It just doesn't work that way. There are too many moving parts in an NBA team. Salary issues. Injury issues. Performance issues. You can't put all this momentum on hold and say "Next year is the year".

I would like to challenge you to come up with an example where this has worked for a team to tank their way to a championship. You believe that we should sacrifice our current success (or chance of success) for a possibility of a good player that becomes the difference maker. I assume if you're willing to root for your own team to lose that you must have some solid evidence that this works.

My recollection of championship teams are ones that do their due diligence and improve year after year until they get a chance at a championship.

It's an anomaly, but San Antonio basically held off bringing Robinson back from injury which helped them land Duncan, thus starting a dynasty.
 
I agree that the talent at the top of the draft, other than Davis, doesn't look as good as people were expecting. But as far as the depth of the 2012 draft goes, it's still remarkable, IMO. Worst case scenario, for me at least, with that 14th pick is Jeremy Lamb. Do most drafts have 13 players who are legitimately better than Jeremy Lamb?

Maybe you know something that I don't, but to be honest, I have no idea how good Jeremy Lamb can be. I think he could be great, but I also think he could be the 2nd coming of Jerryd Bayless.
 
Talent does win championships. The thing is that we have a lot of talent on this team. What we don't have is playoff experience. I just don't see how someone can tell me with a straight face that another 12th-13th pick in the draft is going to be the difference maker. Even in this draft. It would be just another person that needs to develop over the next few years before they can really contribute.

You say that it's just another year and we can start that championship run next year. It just doesn't work that way. There are too many moving parts in an NBA team. Salary issues. Injury issues. Performance issues. You can't put all this momentum on hold and say "Next year is the year".

I would like to challenge you to come up with an example where this has worked for a team to tank their way to a championship. You believe that we should sacrifice our current success (or chance of success) for a possibility of a good player that becomes the difference maker. I assume if you're willing to root for your own team to lose that you must have some solid evidence that this works.

My recollection of championship teams are ones that do their due diligence and improve year after year until they get a chance at a championship.

Almost every team that wins a title drafted their most important players. And certainly all small market teams that have won it all did.

I think we can agree that our current situation is different than the situation of most other past and current lottery teams. What I mean is that we already have a lot of young talent that we hope pans out, unlike your average lottery team. So when I envision our four youngsters developing, I see a very strong core, but I don't see them bringing home any rings--there are a few holes that need to be filled in order to get over that hump into contender status. So when I say that I believe we can get a "difference maker" at the end of the lottery, I'm not expecting us to get a superstar by any means, I just think we can get someone good enough to fill the holes, like say Austin Rivers, Kendall Marshall etc. Like do you think the Mavs would have won last year without Terry, Chandler, and so on? I'm not arguing that we're going to get the face of the franchise with that pick, just that we can get a "Terry" or "Chandler" that will get us over the hump. But unlike Dallas, history has taught me that free agency is much less likely to bring us a "Chandler" and the draft is our best rout. I wouldn't say that about most drafts, but I will about this one.

It all comes down to a few questions:

1. Do you believe that our young core is good enough to win a title in the future?

If you answered yes, then ok, we're obviously not on the same page. But if you answered no, then the next question is:

2. How do you expect to acquire the pieces in order to get over that hump?

My answer is that we have a better chance through the draft than through blockbuster trades, due to the seemingly timid front office when it comes to that sort of thing (note another year of 0 trades), and it's certainly a better method than hoping quality free agents come to a small market like Utah. So the next question is:

3. What is the best draft to acquire the pieces you supposedly need to get over that hump? (especially if you are expecting to be picking at the end of the lottery)

My answer? The 2012 draft.
 
It's an anomaly, but San Antonio basically held off bringing Robinson back from injury which helped them land Duncan, thus starting a dynasty.

Well, that's the rub with that example. Now, we're talking about superstars. You're talking about a player that was not only the top pick but probably the best player taken from the draft for several years during that time. We're also talking about a team that was really bad due to an injury of another superstar. Also, the Spurs hit a home run by getting Tim Duncan. We wouldn't be having the same discussion if they had gotten any other player from that draft lottery.

And, not to minimize the affect of having Tim Duncan, but their other "big two" are a 28th pick and a 57th pick in their respective drafts ... which actually goes more to the point I'm making. The draft is a crapshoot. Win if you can because you are guaranteed nothing in the draft.
 
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