On the subject of personal attacks

[franklin]

I've noticed that there exists an idea in modern society that personal attacks are inherently irrational and have no place in a civil debate. Some will even thru fancy phrases like "ad hominem fallacy" as if that settles it.

But that's just nonsense. The notion that ideas must be treated like independent entities separate from the person advancing them is the fallacy. In reality, people have motives, whether conscious or, more importantly, subconscious. And illuminating those motives are an integral part of any good discussion. For example, Franklin questioning Dalamon's dislike of the US as a motivator for his ideas is perfectly valid. It is important to understand the context from which those ideas stem if you want to understand what your opponent actually thinks, and why s/he thinks that. Similarly, despite popular opinion, me calling Archie dishonest or stupid for pretending he's just a messenger dispassionately passing along what he hears is legitimate and interesting. More interesting, in fact, than ignoring Archie's motives and blindly discussing Shapiro's racial sentiments.

So ya, personal attacks definitely have a place in rational debates. Thank you for your time.

This place is microcosm vs. macrocosm, with both often misinterpreted. I've noticed over the years that when I respond to a poster with specific history of shared thought that others not privy tend to take it out of context and get offended. I've also noticed way too many times where posters making a political P.O.V. are harassed, and then have to place a disclaimer ( [MENTION=499]LogGrad98[/MENTION] 's point) instead of the other poster understanding the posting history and being rational about it.

 

[LogGrad98]

I think in this thread "ad hominem" is being used incorrectly. It is not just a personal attack during an argument, it is rather when one person uses a personal attack instead of a rational argument. I may be arguing for abortion rights of the mother, and I may be a staunch republican. The other person may get frustrated and say something like "well you are a known neocon so your opinion on abortion doesn't matter since you are racist and do not support individual rights" or something. This is an adhominem argument that sidesteps the actual discussion and brings in an element similar to "guilt by association".

 

[franklin]

I think in this thread "ad hominem" is being used incorrectly. It is not just a personal attack during an argument, it is rather when one person uses a personal attack instead of a rational argument. I may be arguing for abortion rights of the mother, and I may be a staunch republican. The other person may get frustrated and say something like "well you are a known neocon so your opinion on abortion doesn't matter since you are racist and do not support individual rights" or something. This is an adhominem argument that sidesteps the actual discussion and brings in an element similar to "guilt by association".

Don't you ad hominem me with your costume at Southern Utah University. (an [MENTION=146]DutchJazzer[/MENTION] dream find and worthy of a separate thread)

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46187856&n...tudents-skip-sombreros-blackface-on-halloween

 

[BabyPeterzz]

I feel like a door just opened to a much larger and more entertaining conversation.

So Log how about a Cleveland Steamer?

Dude, Log knows poop. Don’t mess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TroutBum]

Back in my day… Personal attacks actually meant something. When we went after somebody's mom, face, intelligence – – or severe lack there of – – we went in guns blazing, hearts wide open, and teeth bared. I have forgotten more about personal attacks than what all you ******* know combined.

I blame your parents, really.

hey bro. Coprolite is a rock. Yes, it's a term anthropolists and geologists use sometimes because it's a kind of fossil. If you encounter coprolite, you will notice a characteristic shape that's familiar, say to the average toilet-fishing four-year old, but the fossil doesn't stink.

In hopes of drawing Trout back to this site, I humbly submit the following link. It should work like a magnet.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/longest-fossilized-poop-to-be-sold-at-auction/

Would it surprise you to know that I have quite an impressive collection of fossilized **** that I have found right here in the great state of Utah?