What's new
By:

Paris under attack

Dr. Jones said:
In all seriousness, Dala, you are among my favorite people on earth.
Thank you for responding and I will absorb your tl;dr posts as soon as I have some quiet time.
Godspeed to you and your family!
Click to expand...

likewise, and wishing safety and health to your clan!
 
dalamon said:
Let's ask ourselves a couple questions first-- 1.5 billion Muslims all read the same book. Okay. Why are some of them responding to this religious text with a desire to kill civilians in the west-- including those who live in the west?
Click to expand...

See, inadvertently, you've highlighted the real issue here. Just by reading the same book, a billion and a half people became a unit, a whole, a community? With similar goals, issues, problems? The whole concept of ummah is completely and utterly incompatible with modern western society which demands and receives loyalty to the state first. You cannot constantly and consistently teach the brotherhood of all Muslims at the expense of others, and then be shocked when that's exactly how people internalize this.

You talk about Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, and the first thing I notice is that when attacks like this happen, you can be assured that the perpetrators will have nothing to do with those actual places. In France and Belgium, they will inevitably be from Maghreb. What exactly do they have to do with Syria? With Iraq? With the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? And I get that there's a tremendous amount of racism and Islamophobia in France. I get that (mostly Maghrebi) Muslims are ghettoized in places where there are few jobs, few services, few educational opportunities. But not one of these perpetrators seems concerned about that. The statements have to do with things happening half way across the world that have no tangible connections with them.

That's not normal. Not it today's world. When there were Troubles in Northern Ireland, I don't recall it creating any tension in Canada. I don't recall people of protestant or catholic Irish origin(and there is a LOT of those in Canada) getting up in arms about what's going on over there. I don't recall my friends of Ulster Protestant stock seeing the Omagh bombing as something personally relevant to them. No rational person suspects Catholics of being more loyal to the Pope than to Canada anymore, either.

You can't ask why the world considers all Muslims the same when it seems like all Muslims consider themselves the same.
 
JimLes said:
See, inadvertently, you've highlighted the real issue here. Just by reading the same book, a billion and a half people became a unit, a whole, a community? With similar goals, issues, problems? The whole concept of ummah is completely and utterly incompatible with modern western society which demands and receives loyalty to the state first. You cannot constantly and consistently teach the brotherhood of all Muslims at the expense of others, and then be shocked when that's exactly how people internalize this.
Click to expand...

The conception of the term ummah is 399384903 times less monolithic then you claim it to be-- and you're using one selective interpretation of ummah and applying it to a population of 1.5 billion.

You talk about Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, and the first thing I notice is that when attacks like this happen, you can be assured that the perpetrators will have nothing to do with those actual places. In France and Belgium, they will inevitably be from Maghreb. What exactly do they have to do with Syria? With Iraq? With the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? And I get that there's a tremendous amount of racism and Islamophobia in France. I get that (mostly Maghrebi) Muslims are ghettoized in places where there are few jobs, few services, few educational opportunities. But not one of these perpetrators seems concerned about that. The statements have to do with things happening half way across the world that have no tangible connections with them.

That's not normal. Not it today's world. When there were Troubles in Northern Ireland, I don't recall it creating any tension in Canada. I don't recall people of protestant or catholic Irish origin(and there is a LOT of those in Canada) getting up in arms about what's going on over there. I don't recall my friends of Ulster Protestant stock seeing the Omagh bombing as something personally relevant to them. No rational person suspects Catholics of being more loyal to the Pope than to Canada anymore, either.

You can't ask why the world considers all Muslims the same when it seems like all Muslims consider themselves the same.
Click to expand...

just a laughably inaccurate post. All Muslims consider themselves the same? ****ing preposterous dude.
 
dalamon said:
All Muslims consider themselves the same? ****ing preposterous dude.
Click to expand...

I feel like you should draw a clearer picture why and how much tension exists between the sunnites, shiites, alevites and some other beliefs within the islam.
 
It is getting to the point where it will be acceptable (muslim hate) Dal. Just as hate for the west is acceptable in the middle east.

Did Muslim clerics/institutions condemn these attacks? Absolutely and fiercely.

But the attacks persist, Indonesia, Paris, Kenya, Syria, Iraq, Turkey...

Is the west messing everything up? Yes, western govs. share blame in this. But it is not a problem that they can ever solve. It has to be solved by Syria,m Turkey, Jordan, Iran, Saudi Arabia...until they get serious this will only get worse. The hate muslims receive will continue to grow and spread. understandably so.

Unfortunately the countries mentioned are more interested in fighting each other than solving problems.
 
dalamon said:
just a laughably inaccurate post. All Muslims consider themselves the same? ****ing preposterous dude.
Click to expand...

Fine, then please explain to me what is at work here. Why would some many Muslims with no connection whatsoever to Palestine hate Israel with a passion? Why would a Muslim of Algerian origin from France care so much about who's getting killed in Iraq or Syria. Why?
 
Nato and the Russian Federation need to bring all the players in the middle east to the table. They need to get real with them and stright up ask them for their solutions and what they will need for thos esolutions.

But unfortunately that will never happen because our leaders (all of them) are to busy playing political games.
 
JimLes said:
Fine, then please explain to me what is at work here. Why would some many Muslims with no connection whatsoever to Palestine hate Israel with a passion? Why would a Muslim of Algerian origin from France care so much about who's getting killed in Iraq or Syria. Why?
Click to expand...

Why do Americans get pissed when Paris is attacked? Why does Belgium, Germany, Sweden, Estonia...care?

Didn't hurt them, didn't connect to them.
 
JimLes said:
So wait, now you're defending Islamophobia? Americans getting pissed at all Muslims because of this is idiotic. I think we can all agree on that.
Click to expand...

I am just saying that your questions were bad.

I think Islamophobia is wrong. But I can understand why people have it.
 
JimLes said:
Fine, then please explain to me what is at work here. Why would some many Muslims with no connection whatsoever to Palestine hate Israel with a passion? Why would a Muslim of Algerian origin from France care so much about who's getting killed in Iraq or Syria. Why?
Click to expand...

Why does any person care about any other?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top