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Peaceful protest over Charlie Hebdo in Chechnya

Well i'll be damned
 
Not surprising to me that they are protesting the ciricatures instead of the violence. They are peaceably marching for their faith and that's a good thing.

Disappointing that there are not huge marches in the Muslim world against the widespread damage that these lunatics are doing to their religion and its image.
 
Stoked said:
Not surprising to me that they are protesting the ciricatures instead of the violence. They are peaceably marching for their faith and that's a good thing.

Disappointing that there are not huge marches in the Muslim world against the widespread damage that these lunatics are doing to their religion and its image.
Click to expand...

Huge portions of those people do not condemn the violence and think it is justified. There have been surveys after similar incidents(the London bombings, the Danish cartoonists, etc.) and even within British Muslims the numbers are quite frightening. Pretty big numbers do follow the idea "if you insult my prophet, you deserve what's coming to you"...

And just so I don't throw empty statements here are the Pew Research numbers:

2007 Pew Research:

poll in response to a question on whether suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets to defend Islam could be justified:

- 64% of Muslims in France believed it could never be justified, 19% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% sometimes, and 6% thought it could be justified often.
- 70% of Muslims in Britain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 12% sometimes, and 3% thought it could be justified often.
- 83% of Muslims in Germany believed it could never be justified, 6% believed it could be justified rarely, 6% sometimes, and 1% thought it could be justified often.
- 69% of Muslims in Spain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 10 % sometimes, and 6% thought it could be justified often.
- 45% of Muslims in Egypt believed it could never be justified, 25% believed it could be justified rarely, 20% sometimes, and 8% thought it could be justified often.
- 61% of Muslims in Turkey believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 14% sometimes, and 3% thought it could be justified often.
- 43% of Muslims in Jordan believed it could never be justified, 28% believed it could be justified rarely, 24% sometimes, and 5% thought it could be justified often.
- 28% of Muslims in Nigeria believed it could never be justified, 23% believed it could be justified rarely, 38% sometimes, and 8% thought it could be justified often.
- 69% of Muslims in Pakistan believed it could never be justified, 8% believed it could be justified rarely, 7% sometimes, and 7% thought it could be justified often.
- 71% of Muslims in Indonesia believed it could never be justified, 18% believed it could be justified rarely, 8% sometimes, and 2% thought it could be justified often.


Here's the link: https://pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=97

Here's a newer one from 2013 with similar numbers. It says that estimated 72% of the Muslims worldwide think violence against civilians is never justified. That makes 28% of 1.6 billion followers that believe that at least in some cases violence against civilians is justified to defend the faith. If you just think about it you will realize just how scary that is.

https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-exec/

In 2007 NOP Survey found that 25% of British Muslims thought that the 7/7 terrorist bombings in London were justified, because of the involvement of the UK in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
Link: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/many-british-muslims-put-islam-first/
 
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The Blue Elephant said:
https://rt.com/news/224051-russia-chechen-rally-1mln/

Over 800,000 protest.
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When some of them are marching with signs "we are ready to die for our prophet" - it is scary. Mohammed did something unthinkable with some of the people even after 1400 years after his death and honestly all I can feel after understanding more and more what is this faith - is fear. Millions of people who can't be reasoned and are ready to sacrifice their lives for faith is force to be reckoned with. I just hope that I am old enough to not see this insanity take over the world one day. And lets be honest who is going to stop Islam? Russia? USA? China? India? Europe already failed. Basically S. America is the only continent where Islam is not yet a force.
TBE you know that protests in Mali ended up with dead and injured people. Same in Niger. There were multiple non peaceful protests all over the world as well.

https://www.kfvs12.com/story/27867431/muslims-protest-weeklys-prophet-cartoon-4-killed-in-niger
 
stitches said:
Huge portions of those people do not condemn the violence and think it is justified. There have been surveys after similar incidents(the London bombings, the Danish cartoonists, etc.) and even within British Muslims the numbers are quite frightening. Pretty big numbers do follow the idea "if you insult my prophet, you deserve what's coming to you"...

And just so I don't throw empty statements here are the Pew Research numbers:

2007 Pew Research:

poll in response to a question on whether suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets to defend Islam could be justified:

- 64% of Muslims in France believed it could never be justified, 19% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% sometimes, and 6% thought it could be justified often.
- 70% of Muslims in Britain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 12% sometimes, and 3% thought it could be justified often.
- 83% of Muslims in Germany believed it could never be justified, 6% believed it could be justified rarely, 6% sometimes, and 1% thought it could be justified often.
- 69% of Muslims in Spain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 10 % sometimes, and 6% thought it could be justified often.
- 45% of Muslims in Egypt believed it could never be justified, 25% believed it could be justified rarely, 20% sometimes, and 8% thought it could be justified often.
- 61% of Muslims in Turkey believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 14% sometimes, and 3% thought it could be justified often.
- 43% of Muslims in Jordan believed it could never be justified, 28% believed it could be justified rarely, 24% sometimes, and 5% thought it could be justified often.
- 28% of Muslims in Nigeria believed it could never be justified, 23% believed it could be justified rarely, 38% sometimes, and 8% thought it could be justified often.
- 69% of Muslims in Pakistan believed it could never be justified, 8% believed it could be justified rarely, 7% sometimes, and 7% thought it could be justified often.
- 71% of Muslims in Indonesia believed it could never be justified, 18% believed it could be justified rarely, 8% sometimes, and 2% thought it could be justified often.


Here's the link: https://pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=97

Here's a newer one from 2013 with similar numbers. It says that estimated 72% of the Muslims worldwide think violence against civilians is never justified. That makes 28% of 1.6 billion followers that believe that at least in some cases violence against civilians is justified to defend the faith. If you just think about it you will realize just how scary that is.

https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-exec/

In 2007 NOP Survey found that 25% of British Muslims thought that the 7/7 terrorist bombings in London were justified, because of the involvement of the UK in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
Link: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/many-british-muslims-put-islam-first/
Click to expand...

Countries like Turkey and Bosnia have 99% literacy rate and have the most favorable view vs suicide bombing. Lets check the literacy rates of some of these other countries.

Iraq 80.2%
Syria 79.6 %
Nigeria 61.3%
Bangladesh... 57.7%
Pakistan 55.5%
Afghanistan adult literacy rate.... 28.1%

You want to reduce terrorism? Send books and teachers not drones and bombs.

81% of Americans want to nuke the Middle East. https://www.debate.org/opinions/should-america-nuke-the-middle-east

61% of Americans think nuking Japan was the right thing to do

Which one kills/killed more innocent lives?
 
The Blue Elephant said:
Countries like Turkey and Bosnia have 99% literacy rate and have the most favorable view vs suicide bombing. Lets check the literacy rates of some of these other countries.

Iraq 80.2%
Syria 79.6 %
Nigeria 61.3%
Bangladesh... 57.7%
Pakistan 55.5%
Afghanistan adult literacy rate.... 28.1%

You want to reduce terrorism? Send books and teachers not drones and bombs.

81% of Americans want to nuke the Middle East. https://www.debate.org/opinions/should-america-nuke-the-middle-east

61% of Americans think nuking Japan was the right thing to do

Which one kills/killed more innocent lives?
Click to expand...
But wait, America is one of the more literate countries right...... yet most Americans support nuking dudes.

Doesn't seem to support your education well change thoughts if violence theory
 
fishonjazz said:
But wait, America is one of the more literate countries right...... yet most Americans support nuking dudes.

Doesn't seem to support your education well change thoughts if violence theory
Click to expand...

https://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/poll-muslims-atheists-most-likely-to-reject-violence/

Muslims in America are more likely to reject violence than Christians in America. They are actually 13% points higher than atheists who also are higher than Christians as well. American Muslims are among the most peaceful people on earth according to this survey.

EDIT: I originally put they are tied with atheists, actually they are 13% higher.
 
The Blue Elephant said:
https://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/poll-muslims-atheists-most-likely-to-reject-violence/

Muslims in America are more likely to reject violence than Christians in America. They are actually 13% points higher than atheists who also are higher than Christians as well. American Muslims are among the most peaceful people on earth according to this survey.

EDIT: I originally put they are tied with atheists, actually they are 13% higher.
Click to expand...

Good, I am glad that they reject violence. They need to do a better job of getting that into the public eye. Interviews, editorials, marches...

Yes I know that the media often looks for people to match the story they want and that story many times is a violent Muslim faith. But over all the Muslim faith has done a piss poor job combating extremism within its own ranks and making that rejection public.
 
Stoked said:
Good, I am glad that they reject violence. They need to do a better job of getting that into the public eye. Interviews, editorials, marches...

Yes I know that the media often looks for people to match the story they want and that story many times is a violent Muslim faith. But over all the Muslim faith has done a piss poor job combating extremism within its own ranks and making that rejection public.
Click to expand...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRgS8y-7uXA
 
The Blue Elephant said:
Why should I have to apologize for something I haven't done.
Click to expand...

Would it not be in someone's best interest to defend their own faith/religion/group/party? If they do not want to then that's fine, no harm no foul.

But those that feel this way have no real leg to stand on when they are crying about the negative image it has.
 
Qur'an 9:3-9:12

And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.

Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.

How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].

How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient.

They have exchanged the signs of Allah for a small price and averted [people] from His way. Indeed, it was evil that they were doing.

They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors.

But if they repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, then they are your brothers in religion; and We detail the verses for a people who know.

And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths [sacred] to them; [fight them that] they might cease.


Source:https://quran.com/9
 
I am happy you quoted the whole thing and not out of context. If people who disagree with you but don't wage war with you, not only do you not attack them, but you also protect them.
 
The Blue Elephant said:
I am happy you quoted the whole thing and not out of context. If people who disagree with you but don't wage war with you, not only do you not attack them, but you also protect them.
Click to expand...

Who's responsibility is it to educate people on the proper interpretation? The people that claim that the Quran is the perfect word of God? Muslims?

Likewise if a group of christians use the bible to commit similar acts of violence is it not Christians that should be responsible for educating their fellow Christians about the larger context?
 
heyhey said:
Who's responsibility is it to educate people on the proper interpretation? The people that claim that the Quran is the perfect word of God? Muslims?
Click to expand...

It says right there that you should protect peaceful people. The terrorists are attacking because they view Americans as terrorists themselves. The terrorists view what they are doing as self defense. This is why I think the US should seek nonviolent means to handling the middle east as each side continues to attack and believe what they themselves are acting in retaliation.
 
The Blue Elephant said:
I am happy you quoted the whole thing and not out of context. If people who disagree with you but don't wage war with you, not only do you not attack them, but you also protect them.
Click to expand...

The thing is "wage war on you" can be interpreted as pretty much anything - from actual war to drawing cartoons or blaspheming... as addressed in the very last part. In general this excerpt that heyhey posted is so vague and incoherent that it can be interpreted in the most extreme ways - from don't harm anybody who doesn't harm you, to kill everybody who doesn't agree with you.
 
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