Police Power and Racial Tensions in Ferguson, Missouri

[Stoked]

I know America is a police state and the citizens have been taught to accept them and their powers/privileges so what just happens in that video may be seem sensible to Americans but it's just way too much for me. I'm not even going to argue about it and the circumstances of the incident because I know we are on totally different plates here.

I've been reading, watching and listening all the pro-cops arguments about this incident over the internet for the last few hours and no, none of them made my mind even slightly move towards the shooting cops. I hate the thing in that video with my whole mind, hearth and soul. And nothing can change my mind that it's a straight up murder.

Call me biased.

Your opinion is vastly different than mine.

I hate it as well but will not call it murder. That man showed every intention of killing that cop, he forced their hand.

Either way I think we can both agree that there are clear problems that need to be adressed.

 

[Gameface]

Try telling that to the cops or Army who hate 9mm. The DOD is working on replacing all of the 9mm Berettas with a higher power pistol due to many complaints. Generally 9mm firearms are selected due to lower cost. Cops need to do a lot of range practice, and 9mm rounds are substantially cheaper than .40 or .45.

The +p rounds have more penetration power, but not stopping power. You need larger grained bullets for that. So a +p could go through someone, but may not stop them. The majority of handgun rounds are ineffective in this regard. That is why officers are trained to fire more than once.

I've heard all this **** before.

Hit your target...problem solved.

 

[franklin]

Try telling that to the cops or Army who hate 9mm. The DOD is working on replacing all of the 9mm Berettas with a higher power pistol due to many complaints. Generally 9mm firearms are selected due to lower cost. Cops need to do a lot of range practice, and 9mm rounds are substantially cheaper than .40 or .45.

The +p rounds have more penetration power, but not stopping power. You need larger grained bullets for that. So a +p could go through someone, but may not stop them. The majority of handgun rounds are ineffective in this regard. That is why officers are trained to fire more than once.

Troll. negged.

 

[Gameface]

Try telling that to the cops or Army who hate 9mm. The DOD is working on replacing all of the 9mm Berettas with a higher power pistol due to many complaints. Generally 9mm firearms are selected due to lower cost. Cops need to do a lot of range practice, and 9mm rounds are substantially cheaper than .40 or .45.

The +p rounds have more penetration power, but not stopping power. You need larger grained bullets for that. So a +p could go through someone, but may not stop them. The majority of handgun rounds are ineffective in this regard. That is why officers are trained to fire more than once.

Sorry, 9mm is used because it is the official NATO round for hand guns. We all want to be able to share supplies in the even of WWIII and using 9mm ball ammo is part of that.

I've listened to the old salts bemoan the use of the weak *** 9mm and cherish the days when the Navy used 1911's chambered for .45acp. It's a bunch of crap!

It makes ZERO real world difference. ZERO!

Go gather up some stats and get back to me with an apology.

 

[carolinajazz]

Call me biased.

...I've been called that before, too!

 

[Hotdog]

How odd is it that One Brow says the St Louis shooting is justified, but not the Brown shooting?

The Brown shooting ver likely happened in the same manner as the St Louis shooting. Maybe Brown was even more aggressive.

 

[Stoked]

How odd is it that One Brow says the St Louis shooting is justified, but not the Brown shooting?

The Brown shooting ver likely happened in the same manner as the St Louis shooting. Maybe Brown was even more aggressive.

One clearly shows what happened and the other has a very heavy dose of conjecture at this point. I don't agree with One Brows overall take but I can understand it.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

It depends on how you look at it. What about the cost of guns, uniforms, etc. I think a camera should be a necessary component. Many police forces installed cameras in cars or on officers and changed policies that previously required two officers at every incident. That saves a lot of money.

And yes, cops that do stupid **** will get scrutinized, but I'm sorry, that risk comes with the added power and responsibility. A cop that shoots someone gets deference over the common citizen that does the same. Often when they are the only witness. (think Geist in SLC). A body cam would require officers to be prudent and reasonable. And if they aren't, there needs to be consequences.

As far as the cost goes, we weren't in a fiscal crisis nationally years ago when cameras were put into squad cars. We are now, imo, and we can't ignore that.

As far as being scrutinized goes, perhaps I should've said over-scrutinized. A cop curses a lot? Fire him. A cop used the n word once in his car to his partner who's white? Fire him. A cop talks about some chick he was banging last night to his partner? Fire him. The level of absurdity to which those cameras would take things would be off the charts. Every little thing a cop does will be called into question. And just like we are today with this case in St. Louis, we will questions the cop(s) long and hard about their actions, even though in this case, an armed man was coming right at him. I hate pigs. But I have a strong respect for cops who put their life on the line, make tough split-second decisions, and have to live with those decisions for the rest of their life. I'm not saying this STL case is that cut and dry but think about how semi-absurd it is that we're putting these particular cops under a microscope even though the one was being attacked by an armed man who clearly lacks clarity.

Enes, I love you, but I have a big problem with the mindset that this cop was in the wrong and should've simply holstered his weapon and wrestled the guy to the ground. Hyperbole obviously but my point is, what were his options? I concede that the last couple shots are overkill imo but again to play armchair cop in such a crazy situation isn't fair. No training can prepare you for those one or two seconds. None. So I'm going to side on the side of the person trying to diffuse the situation, not the attacker.

 

[LogGrad98]

How odd is it that One Brow says the St Louis shooting is justified, but not the Brown shooting?

The Brown shooting ver likely happened in the same manner as the St Louis shooting. Maybe Brown was even more aggressive.

I may not have it all straight but I thought in the Brown case he wasn't armed, but in the St Louis shooting the perp was obviously carrying a knife.

 

[carolinajazz]

Then they cuff him when he is dead. Wow!

...reminds me of one of those high speed chases on t.v. where a guy on a "crotch rocket" was exiting an interstate at about 90 miles an hour.....hit the side of a bus...bounced about 20 feet in the air, landed on his head and probably broke every bone in his body in the process! When the cops got there, they turned him over on his stomach and cuffed his hands behind his back! I don't think the kid was going anywhere anytime soon, but they cuffed him anyway!!!

 

[Hotdog]

I may not have it all straight but I thought in the Brown case he wasn't armed, but in the St Louis shooting the perp was obviously carrying a knife.

Brown wasn't armed. The St Louis guy just had butter knife I believe. Not sure though.

Brown was 6'4" 290. The St Louis guy was average size. Sure, I'd rather fight a bigger guy with no knife, but it's about the same. Also, if rumors are true, and he already punched him once and put his hand on his gun then he is a huge threat. No one knows If Brown would have taken the cops gun and killed him if he dazed the cop enough.

That's my thing with the Brown shooting. I don't expect cops to take on someone one on one. A cop shouldn't have to do that. If the criminal gets a lucky shot and knocks him out then he could easily take the cops gun and kill the cop.

So being unarmed doesn't mean much to me. You shouldn't be getting aggressive with cops no matter what.

 

[Stoked]

Brown wasn't armed. The St Louis guy just had butter knife I believe. Not sure though.

Brown was 6'4" 290. The St Louis guy was average size. Sure, I'd rather fight a bigger guy with no knife, but it's about the same. Also, if rumors are true, and he already punched him once and put his hand on his gun then he is a huge threat. No one knows If Brown would have taken the cops gun and killed him if he dazed the cop enough.

That's my thing with the Brown shooting. I don't expect cops to take on someone one on one. A cop shouldn't have to do that. If the criminal gets a lucky shot and knocks him out then he could easily take the cops gun and kill the cop.

So being unarmed doesn't mean much to me. You shouldn't be getting aggressive with cops no matter what.

I agree that fighting a cop is just begging for trouble.

But the bolded part is right where those against the cop in the Brown shooting come in. There are rumors going both ways and people are cherry picking which ones to believe.

The proven facts are:

Brown was unarmed
Brown was shot 6 times including the top of the head
Brown had just robbed a store but the officer did not know that at the time.
First shot was fired from in the car

The rest is what might have happened.