Police Power and Racial Tensions in Ferguson, Missouri

[♪alt13]

The president of my company and all his core staff are former policemen and women and former military. I've run all my comments in this thread by them before posting.

I can second this my neighbor is a retired cop and he thinks the police force has gotten out of hand. My step father is an ex parole officer and he changed occupations due to what he saw as a broken system of harassment.

We are to blame for asking our officers to enforce too many laws. I imagine an officer that chose not to harass every twenty something that he suspected smoked pot would not advance up the ladder if he/she even managed to keep his/her job.


For the record. I don't smoke pot. I tried it and hated it. I have spent many hours being searched over the years though. I have never had a drug conviction for all the time the police force has wasted.

 

[LogGrad98]

The president of my company and all his core staff are former policemen and women and former military. I've run all my comments in this thread by them before posting.

You work at hooters?

 

[LogGrad98]

https://www.theonion.com/articles/t...ocialMarketing&utm_campaign=Default:1:Default

 

[One Brow]

This is basically my experience with the police. Something gets tagged or stolen and they simply don't care. When I was 20 I had a guy break into my house in the middle of the night. I chased him out but was unable to pursue due to being in the nude. I called the police to report the man and they didn't even show up. I have been harassed by the police and I don't know anyone with a story of how the police had personally helped them.

I know that cops do some good and that there are decent reasonable officers out there but from my perspective it seems that the job is 5% service and 95% state sponsored harassment.

I've had police give me a ride, sometimes when it was wanted, sometimes just to get me out of their city. They are all just human, with all the human strengths and weaknesses. One of those weaknesses is that they respond to their training and how they are equipped. In one city, when my car stalled, a police officer helped push it out of the way. In another, they forbade me to call my own tow truck, and I had to pay $200 for it to be towed a few blocks. If the second police officer had worked for the first city, I'm sure he would have helped to push the car.

 

[Stoked]

Looting was done by an iota of a percentage of the protesters, and done well after the police fully equipped with tanks, dogs, and rifles showed up while they gathered to mourn.

Incorrect, the looting, arson and rioting was there from the beginning.

The police used APCs, assault rifles and concussion grenades after a couple days.

K9 units, riot shields, rubber bullets and tear gas were the initial methods used. They were there from the start as was the looting and rioting.

 

[One Brow]

One of the biggest problems is we trust mostly uneducated people to protect us. Generally, to become a cop all you need is a high school degree, yet we expect this people to make logical decisions in high pressure situations. Of course bad things will happen.

Not to say there are not many good, smart, hard-working officers out there, I just think most aren't.

I think there is additional training beyond high school required for most urban/suburban police departments. It's a steady job with decent pay, and that's hard to come be for many communities, so the police probably can be somewhat selective in whom they hire.

 

[Stoked]

Honest question One Brow.

How would you feel about changing the group that investigates police shootings? Perhaps groups of 4-5 people. Have 1-2 CSI guys (not with the PD, or 1 PD and 1 non PD), a homicide detective (PD affiliated), a laywer/judge (non PD) and maybe a civil rights advocate. Mix the group up along race, gender, political leanings and religion(including agnostics and athiests) lines.

Do you fell that it inspire greater confidence in the initial system? Minorities particularly?

 

[One Brow]

If you look at the pictures of Ferguson MO over the last few days and you see all the fancy riot gear, weapons and vehicles, I think it's readily apparent the cops have plenty of money. Not sure how much of that is going into training though.

More importantly, which type of training?

Last night, state troopers took over in Ferguson. Cops in riot gear were sent well outside the protest areas, generally a mile or more. Cops in the area were in regular uniforms, often mixed in with the protesters, listening and responding. The results was a much more peaceful protest and no arrests. Repression encourages behaviors that need repressing.

 

[One Brow]

Honest question One Brow.

How would you feel about changing the group that investigates police shootings? Perhaps groups of 4-5 people. Have 1-2 CSI guys (not with the PD, or 1 PD and 1 non PD), a homicide detective (PD affiliated), a laywer/judge (non PD) and maybe a civil rights advocate. Mix the group up along race, gender, political leanings and religion(including agnostics and athiests) lines.

Do you fell that it inspire greater confidence in the initial system? Minorities particularly?

I think that would depend on how the positions are filled. Locally, if Mayor Slay is making these appointments, then the residents of northern St. Louis might not trust them any more than the police force (it depends greatly on how many of the choices appear to be patronage). However, I think civilian review boards are a good idea, generally, if handled correctly. If the public perception is that there is check on abuses of power by the police, that will help calm tensions.

 

[Stoked]

I think that would depend on how the positions are filled. Locally, if Mayor Slay is making these appointments, then the residents of northern St. Louis might not trust them any more than the police force (it depends greatly on how many of the choices appear to be patronage). However, I think civilian review boards are a good idea, generally, if handled correctly. If the public perception is that there is check on abuses of power by the police, that will help calm tensions.

Well I was thinking more nationally with this idea. Have all police shootings reviewed this way. They could be appointed by the governor from state to state. I'm sure that the state legislatures, staffs, PDs and mayors would submitted candidates. I would not want it "civilian" as in it is compeltely state and police removed. I would want an equal mix of authority and civilian. That would ensure a fairer outcome imo. Also no investigator should be from the department if the shooter and no one on the review board should have any connetion to anyone involved.

Also the state highway patrol has taken over the Ferguson PD dutties and are handling it in a much more appropriate way imo.

 

[One Brow]

Incorrect, the looting, arson and rioting was there from the beginning.

The police used APCs, assault rifles and concussion grenades after a couple days.

K9 units, riot shields, rubber bullets and tear gas were the initial methods used. They were there from the start as was the looting and rioting.

https://news.yahoo.com/vandalism-looting-vigil-missouri-man-043816425.html

It's a little ways down in the article, but the first protests were at police headquarters, and were peaceable. Had the police taken the opportunity to mix in with the protesters and interact with them, as opposed to standing like an opposing force, the direction of the protests could have been altered. Later, the candlelight vigil turned violent.

I'm not blaming the individual police officers here. I'm sure all of them were following their training and doing their best. We need to change how police interact with citizens in these situations.

 

[Stoked]

https://news.yahoo.com/vandalism-looting-vigil-missouri-man-043816425.html

It's a little ways down in the article, but the first protests were at police headquarters, and were peaceable. Had the police taken the opportunity to mix in with the protesters and interact with them, as opposed to standing like an opposing force, the direction of the protests could have been altered. Later, the candlelight vigil turned violent.

I'm not blaming the individual police officers here. I'm sure all of them were following their training and doing their best. We need to change how police interact with citizens in these situations.

I am not defending the excessively heavy handed response of the Ferguson PD. I am only saying that it is not as you wish to portray it. I am also correcting misinformation. Such as your statement that they were using assault rifles and APCs from the start.

From the article you yourself just linked: "Earlier Sunday, a few hundred protesters gathered outside Ferguson Police headquarters. Some marched into an adjacent police building chanting "Don't shoot me" while holding their hands in the air. Officers stood at the top of a staircase, but didn't use force; the crowd eventually left. A similar protest that attracted about 250 people was held Monday morning"

Also from that article: "Nearly three dozen people were arrested after tensions around the case following a candlelight vigil Sunday night, as crowds looted and burned stores, vandalized vehicles and taunted officers who tried to block access to parts of the city"

This shows that police began to arrest people when the protests were no longer peaceful.

Did you even read this article? It backs up everything I have said and nothing you have.

Sure the cops could have handled it better, especially as things dragged on, but initially the cops just let the protestors have their say and go on their way. They didn't use force until the protests turned violent according to this article. They also continually escalated that force as time went by. They way they used that escalating that force, and they way they escalated it so dramatically, is where they went horribly wrong.