Question for Capologists

[Stifle Tower]

For purposes of calculating luxury taxes and the team payroll, it's the end of season totals that count, correct?
1. Let's pretend Utah had not made the GS trade and, with some miscellaneous FA additions, started this season with $28M in salaries.
2. At the deadline, they pick up $24M in salary dumps without sending anything back (other than the rights to future 2nd rounders).
3. So after the deadline, the books show $52M in salary totals for the players and the Jazz are at the salary floor.
4. However, their true costs would have been $12M less because they're only paying for 1/2 season for the players they took on at the deadline, right?

Is my logic, correct or have I misunderstood the way salaries are accounted for?

If I'm right, we owe a HUGE thanks to Greg and the Miller family. They're spending a lot of money to get 4 additional picks, Brandon Rush and a couple of 3-legged horses.

 

[Bodhi]

I don't have an answer but I wanted to touch on a pet peeve. We hear, ad nauseum that we need to thank the Millers for this or that, or "the Millers stepped up financially" and made a commitment etc etc.

I own a business and no one in the community seems to find the need to thank me when I make the financial commitment to purchase 2 new work trucks. And here's an odd twist: those help me grown and sustain my business. I don't do it cause it's a charity. Neither is the Utah Jazz. They aren't feeding the homeless here when they buy a draft pick.

Rant over.

 

[Qman]

For purposes of calculating luxury taxes and the team payroll, it's the end of season totals that count, correct?
1. Let's pretend Utah had not made the GS trade and, with some miscellaneous FA additions, started this season with $28M in salaries.
2. At the deadline, they pick up $24M in salary dumps without sending anything back (other than the rights to future 2nd rounders).
3. So after the deadline, the books show $52M in salary totals for the players and the Jazz are at the salary floor.
4. However, their true costs would have been $12M less because they're only paying for 1/2 season for the players they took on at the deadline, right?

Is my logic, correct or have I misunderstood the way salaries are accounted for?


If I'm right, we owe a HUGE thanks to Greg and the Miller family. They're spending a lot of money to get 4 additional picks, Brandon Rush and a couple of 3-legged horses.

You're logic is correct that you would only have to play for half the season's worth of salary. However the Luxury Tax (about 73 mil) is much higher than the salary cap (about 53 mil). If you start below the Salary Cap, then you cannot absorb contracts above the salary cap level.

 

[Stifle Tower]

You're logic is correct that you would only have to play for half the season's worth of salary. However the Luxury Tax (about 73 mil) is much higher than the salary cap (about 53 mil). If you start below the Salary Cap, then you cannot absorb contracts above the salary cap level.

OK great. So the Millers could have saved about $12M by waiting until the deadline to take on salaries and reach the minimum.

Bodhi,
Thanks for supporting the economy. I'm sure if I were familiar with you and used your company (whatever it is), I'd be able to thank you for a job well done. The Millers are spending money that they don't necessarily have to in an attempt to build a winning, contending team. We've all seen what happens to franchises that have owners who either don't care or meddle too much.

 

[Harcher]

I don't have an answer but I wanted to touch on a pet peeve. We hear, ad nauseum that we need to thank the Millers for this or that, or "the Millers stepped up financially" and made a commitment etc etc.

I own a business and no one in the community seems to find the need to thank me when I make the financial commitment to purchase 2 new work trucks. And here's an odd twist: those help me grown and sustain my business. I don't do it cause it's a charity. Neither is the Utah Jazz. They aren't feeding the homeless here when they buy a draft pick.

Rant over.

The other part of this is that i'm irrationally attached to a company (Jazz) but i don't read fan sites on Dish Network, Dell Computer, Coca Cola, or the other misc companies that i'm quite satisfied with... which means some elment of "keeping the fans happy" is a business decision.

I actually don't think the day to day ops of the Jazz are anything but business. The Jazz didn't add $12M to the payroll becuase they just want the fans to be happy, they did it becuase they feel it is good business. And definately happy fans are part of the equation. It is very possible the Millers have had a chance to sell the Jazz and pocket some cash and they might of chose not to becuase they like the fact that the state of Utah (the city of Utah if you prefer) get some nat'l spotlight as a result.

 

[trigg3r]

I don't have an answer but I wanted to touch on a pet peeve. We hear, ad nauseum that we need to thank the Millers for this or that, or "the Millers stepped up financially" and made a commitment etc etc.

I own a business and no one in the community seems to find the need to thank me when I make the financial commitment to purchase 2 new work trucks. And here's an odd twist: those help me grown and sustain my business. I don't do it cause it's a charity. Neither is the Utah Jazz. They aren't feeding the homeless here when they buy a draft pick.

Rant over.

You better thank the Miller family or they will hire Big Dawg Antoine Carr to find you and teach you a lesson........

 

[GVC]

2. At the deadline, they pick up $24M in salary dumps without sending anything back (other than the rights to future 2nd rounders).
3. So after the deadline, the books show $52M in salary totals for the players and the Jazz are at the salary floor.
4. However, their true costs would have been $12M less because they're only paying for 1/2 season for the players they took on at the deadline, right?

This is incorrect. The "minimum payroll" is 90% of the cap, and is equal to the actual monies paid.

Link: https://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q15

 

[Stifle Tower]

You better thank the Miller family or they will hire Big Dawg Antoine Carr to find you and teach you a lesson........

Actually, I said something critical of them back in the 90's and they sent Luther Wright after me. I grabbed a garbage can lid to defend myself, but he just kept banging away until the cops arrived to save me.

 

[Bodhi]

The other part of this is that i'm irrationally attached to a company (Jazz) but i don't read fan sites on Dish Network, Dell Computer, Coca Cola, or the other misc companies that i'm quite satisfied with... which means some elment of "keeping the fans happy" is a business decision.

I actually don't think the day to day ops of the Jazz are anything but business. The Jazz didn't add $12M to the payroll becuase they just want the fans to be happy, they did it becuase they feel it is good business. And definately happy fans are part of the equation. It is very possible the Millers have had a chance to sell the Jazz and pocket some cash and they might of chose not to becuase they like the fact that the state of Utah (the city of Utah if you prefer) get some nat'l spotlight as a result.

All agreed except one point, and this will be my last post off topic (sorry, Core4). If they sold or didn't give a **** they would very much risk blowback on the myriad of other companies they own and which really pay the bills and build their wealth.

Very happy they care and invest in a team I love, but I'm not willing to look at them as anything but shrewd business people (Greg might not seem it, but I've had personal dealings with with him and he is sharper than he comes across).

Anyway, sorry for the off topic bit. Carry on.

 

[trigg3r]

All agreed except one point, and this will be my last post off topic (sorry, Core4). If they sold or didn't give a **** they would very much risk blowback on the myriad of other companies they own and which really pay the bills and build their wealth.

Very happy they care and invest in a team I love, but I'm not willing to look at them as anything but shrewd business people (Greg might not seem it, but I've had personal dealings with with him and he is sharper than he comes across).

Anyway, sorry for the off topic bit. Carry on.

You are absolutely correct.

 

[Harcher]

All agreed except one point, and this will be my last post off topic (sorry, Core4). If they sold or didn't give a **** they would very much risk blowback on the myriad of other companies they own and which really pay the bills and build their wealth.

Very happy they care and invest in a team I love, but I'm not willing to look at them as anything but shrewd business people (Greg might not seem it, but I've had personal dealings with with him and he is sharper than he comes across).

Anyway, sorry for the off topic bit. Carry on.

Yes this is true, i forgot that aspect.

 

[green]

Another question: I heard on the radio that if a team (the Jazz) did not hit the 90% salary floor they had to pay out the money to current players AND they were not eligible for luxury tax payments from the Lakers/Nets/etc.

Is the second stipulation true? If it is, this trade just made Utah boat loads of money.

 

[mellow]

Another question: I heard on the radio that if a team (the Jazz) did not hit the 90% salary floor they had to pay out the money to current players AND they were not eligible for luxury tax payments from the Lakers/Nets/etc.

Is the second stipulation true? If it is, this trade just made Utah boat loads of money.

I read that same thing earlier this week in these forums. Never saw a certain answer.

 

[Stifle Tower]

This is incorrect. The "minimum payroll" is 90% of the cap, and is equal to the actual monies paid.

Link: https://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q15

Isn't the cap $58M. So 90% would be $52M? Actual monies paid changes the dynamics of waiting until the deadline to take on salaries. Couldn't make it to the floor in that case.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Another question: I heard on the radio that if a team (the Jazz) did not hit the 90% salary floor they had to pay out the money to current players AND they were not eligible for luxury tax payments from the Lakers/Nets/etc.

Is the second stipulation true? If it is, this trade just made Utah boat loads of money.

Well, I doubt the tax payment will be $24M, the amount of salary they took on. Financially, it still would have made more sense to sign serviceable players who could be signed for much less than what Jefferson and Biedrins are getting. Rush is a decent deal at $4M, IMO.

 

[GVC]

Isn't the cap $58M. So 90% would be $52M?

1. Not sure the exact cap figure yet.

2. I was answering your question about how payroll is calculated. It is not an end of season cap calculation (like the LT calculation), rather the actual monies paid to the players employed throughout the season.

 

[The Midnight]

I don't have an answer but I wanted to touch on a pet peeve. We hear, ad nauseum that we need to thank the Millers for this or that, or "the Millers stepped up financially" and made a commitment etc etc.

I own a business and no one in the community seems to find the need to thank me when I make the financial commitment to purchase 2 new work trucks. And here's an odd twist: those help me grown and sustain my business. I don't do it cause it's a charity. Neither is the Utah Jazz. They aren't feeding the homeless here when they buy a draft pick.

Rant over.

"Charlotte Bobcats"

 

[green]

Well, I doubt the tax payment will be $24M, the amount of salary they took on. Financially, it still would have made more sense to sign serviceable players who could be signed for much less than what Jefferson and Biedrins are getting. Rush is a decent deal at $4M, IMO.

They have to pay the 24 million one way or another. The money was spent already. What I'm wondering I'd this:

At the end of the year, teams over the cap pay their tax. The tax goes into a pot and split among teams that were under the cap. I heard if you aren't at the floor, you aren't eligible for that payment.

If this is true, then the Jazz just made themselves over 5 million. Not too shabby.

 

[Stifle Tower]

1. Not sure the exact cap figure yet.

2. I was answering your question about how payroll is calculated. It is not an end of season cap calculation (like the LT calculation), rather the actual monies paid to the players employed throughout the season.

Thanks.

 

[Stifle Tower]

They have to pay the 24 million one way or another. The money was spent already. What I'm wondering I'd this:

At the end of the year, teams over the cap pay their tax. The tax goes into a pot and split among teams that were under the cap. I heard if you aren't at the floor, you aren't eligible for that payment.

If this is true, then the Jazz just made themselves over 5 million. Not too shabby.

GVC just clarified that. I was thinking the floor was calculated like the luxury tax - i.e. the Jazz could simply add on contracts at the deadline. GVC's explanation makes the trade a truly brilliant move by Lindsey. Jazz will reach the floor, do not hurt cap space for next season and are taking on players who can all come off the bench without sacrificing the development of our young core.