Question for Mormons

[Jazz Spazz]

My two cents, if anyone cares:

As usual, I don't agree with Spazz. While I am a member of the LDS faith, I believe *it is true, but I don't know that it is. It makes perfect sense to me that anyone can receive revelation for themselves, family, others. Does it come from Gordon? I don't know. I believe it does, but who knows. I also will never say that the LDS church is THEE ONLY true church, and I can't stand it when people say that it is. You don't know that it is, and you simply can't know. Give people around you credit, and be intellectually honest with yourself and stop professing that you know stuff that you don't. The LDS faith doesn't have a monopoly on good deeds, selflessness, awareness and love of the family, etc. Most churches teach the same things that LDS teach, and those that don't are still preaching messages of love, charity, and faith. Good on 'em, I approve. Does this attitude put me in with 1/3 of the host of Heaven?* Gordon, I hope not, but I am what I am -- the kicker is, Gordon knows what I am also, and I don't believe He would've sent me down here to fail.

* I don't think I've ever used as many 's as I did in this post. Sorry about that.

** I will readily say that I am not down with the all the hate for my brother Lucifer. While he fell out of favor with Gordon, we don't know everything, and I have a hard time not forgiving him for doing what he thought was right, and what he thought his father wanted. After all, is forgiveness not one of our main goals in this life? You should've seen the faces and heard the instant silence when I prayed for our brother Lucifer, that he might find his way home, after an EQ meeting. It was awesome. (in a good way, seriously)

Basically calling the LDS church, or any church the true church is a statement that they have true authority from God.
That's what it means.
You cannot have 50 churches teaching different doctrines of Christ and have them all be True churches of Christ. Christ came to the earth, and he corrected the false doctrines taught by the Pharisees and Sadduccees. He called people out when they were wrong. He cleansed the Temple, he let people know when they were doing something wrong. He and his Apostles also corrected his followers and his Church when they had disputations about the doctrine. Do you really think he would change who He is inside and allow or claim 50 churches that all teach different things to all be His?

Seriously? That just does not make sense to me.

I can know for myself what is true. I believe in answers to prayers, I believe in the Holy Ghost, I believe that there is Authority from God on the earth today. I can know that just as much or more than I know anything else. You may not believe me, and you may not know it for yourself, but I can know it. I am being as much or more intellectually honest as you or anyone else, and I think that phrase is just code word crap for saying "you can't know it because you can't prove it to me as a doubting thomas with a formula and scientific experiment". I'm sick of that "intellectually honest" crap.

As to giving other people around me credit, I do give them plenty of credit. There are tons of non LDS people that are awesome, and that I give a better shot of making it to "heaven" than half, or most of the LDS people... Priesthood Authority or not. Priesthood Authority means absolutely nothing if you either do nothing with it, or are a scumbag, or a million other scenarios. It's a nice step, but you still have to follow in the footsteps of Christ to get there. It's easy to give someone the Priesthood Authority, but it's much harder to get people to walk in the footsteps of Christ.

Trout, believe it or not you and I agree more than you think... with a few tweaks. BTW it's impossible to be with the 1/3 hosts of heaven that didn't make it here... because you are here. You may need to think some things through just a bit more, but that's no biggie... comes with time and grey hairs. Nice job on the post, no filth or swear words this time.

 

[orangello]

You should've seen the faces and heard the instant silence when I prayed for our brother Lucifer, that he might find his way home, after an EQ meeting. It was awesome. (in a good way, seriously)

Epic. I feel like I have to meet you now to get a better understanding of where you are coming from. I can't say that I disagree about your belief in forgiveness. The basic doctrine is simple and from what I gather everyone has a chance to be forgiven. That is as far as I will dive into that subject for now.

 

[CONAN]

You really think other religious clergy don't receive help/inspiration from God as they serve their congregation?

I would hope so. But many religions disdain the idea of modern revelation.

 

[Dr. Jones]

As I have stated in nearly every post in this thread, anything I state or question I ask is meant with respect. If I offend anyone, I assure it is unintentional.

So, next sincere question; Why is there a need to have revelation from God come through a heirarchical system? Isn't God big enough/powerful enough to Father His children without needing our assistance? We obviously all own the right to choose whether we do right or wrong. Any church official can, and occassionally does, willfully choose to sin. If an appointment is made by a prophet, stake president, etc, shouldn't that appointment be almost assuredly the right one? If it later proves to be a disaster (abuse of power, absurd levels of transgressions, etc), why, then, does the communicative heirarchy even need exist?

I believe the bible exists to teach, empower, instruct, and through the power of the Holy Spirit, provide us guidance through revelation. I believe God can use my LDS friends to give me revelation .. I also believe He can use a bum on the street, my mom, or even Dalamon. But it is up to me to pray, be armed with the knowledge of Christ, and discern whether the message was confirmation by the Spirit.

So, back to the question, what is the purpose of relegating yourself to hearing certain revelation from a living, breathing, appointed man, if that revelation is no guarantee the outcome is anymore guaranteed to be accurate than by praying to God yourself, directly?

 

[CONAN]

I got no probs with non-LDS allegedly receiving revelation.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I would hope so. But many religions disdain the idea of modern revelation.

I embrace modern day revelation as well as all gifts of the spirit. What I do not buy is that I must await a stream of information/revelation to make its way through the communicative channels .. when God can just tell me what I need to know directly. I think He is powerful enough and loves me enough to provide direction one-on-one.

 

[CONAN]

So, back to the question, what is the purpose of relegating yourself to hearing certain revelation from a living, breathing, appointed man, if that revelation is no guarantee the outcome is anymore guaranteed to be accurate than by praying to God yourself, directly?

I like the idea of not having to worry about general gospel principles beyond comfirming for myself if they are true (which leadership constantly advises us to do). I like the idea of worrying about my world and not a planet.

 

[CONAN]

What I do not buy is that I must await a stream of information/revelation to make its way through the communicative channels .. when God can just tell me what I need to know directly.

I don't think that's the way LDS work if that's what you are saying. Maybe in terms of general churchwide gospel principles or something else. But in terms of what is within my realm (family, job, etc.) I don't go to clergy for that help. In fact, if I did they would tell me to pray and figure it out on my own in most cases.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I don't think that's the way LDS work if that's what you are saying. Maybe in terms of general churchwide gospel principles or something else. But in terms of what is within my realm (family, job, etc.) I don't go to clergy for that help. In fact, if I did they would tell me to pray and figure it out on my own in most cases.

I believe that .. but what if you felt God spoke to you and urged you to get a message to your stake president (i.e.) about something a bit more global .. would you doubt you heard from God or would you share what you heard with your stake president? (my apologies for the huge what if's here)

 

[Dr. Jones]

I like the idea of not having to worry about general gospel principles beyond comfirming for myself if they are true (which leadership constantly advises us to do). I like the idea of worrying about my world and not a planet.

Not sure I understand what you're saying here. Sounds like a back-handed agreement, but I'll just ask if you'd like to clarify .. or not is fine too.

 

[CONAN]

I believe that .. but what if you felt God spoke to you and urged you to get a message to your stake president (i.e.) about something a bit more global .. would you doubt you heard from God or would you share what you heard with your stake president? (my apologies for the huge what if's here)

I would definitely doubt it.

A better way to put that for me is ask . . . Would God give me revelation for how you should raise your kids?

 

[CONAN]

Not sure I understand what you're saying here. Sounds like a back-handed agreement, but I'll just ask if you'd like to clarify .. or not is fine too.

You can take it however you like. What part is unclear?