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Real GM Grade Fail

Archie Moses

Well-Known Member
Full article.

https://jazz.realgm.com/articles/43/20100714/grading_the_deal_jazz_replace_boozer_with_jefferson/

For the Jazz, acquiring Jefferson one week after losing Boozer at least allows them to sustain their 09-10 level of play for the remainder of Deron Williams' contract. As much as this franchise will ever appease a player, remaining committed to doing everything within their power to keep Williams content with the situation is an imperative given how valuable he is to their continued success. The Jazz are in a better situation than the Hornets are with Chris Paul, but they were another backtrack move or two away having Williams become more vocal with displeasure.

Utah obviously doesn't get better to the point of becoming a feared threat to the Lakers, but they are just about guaranteed a playoff spot.

This move does once again murk up Paul Millsap's role with the team. Do the Jazz go small and start both Millsap and Jefferson, or do they remain more conventional?

Also, the Jazz have a few more days to decide to match the offer sheet Wesley Matthews signed with the Blazers. Matthews became the richest member of the 2009 Draft class with his contract, so it will be difficult for the Jazz to take on that salary burden. But the shooting guard position is perilously thin and will be a difficult area to improve with the mid-level exception.

Furthermore, the logic of passing on Ed Davis and Patrick Patterson in favor of Gordon Hayward becomes more clear in light of the Jefferson acquisition. I had both of those power forwards rated higher than Hayward, plus the need for a replacement for Boozer seemed like an inevitability.

Grade for Jazz: B-

Ultimately, this trade was one both teams had to make because the alternatives were unattractive, even if this doesn't feel great. The Jazz could ill-afford to begin the season without bringing in a replacement for Boozer's production and Jefferson's trade value wasn't going to increase when the season began and Kahn would be forced into increasing his desperation.

Grade for Wolves: B+

I'll be the first to admit that no one will know how the trade will ultimately work out for Utah, but a B- is terrible. We gave up what? A couple of first rounders (one protected) and KOKO for Jefferson who was playing in triangle system not tailored for his game to a Utah system that is meant and created for a low-post type guy like him? Dude is gonna shine if he stays healthy. This is as bad as if the realgm guy gave the Lakers an A- for the Pau Gasol trade, right?
 
Koko had zero value. In fact, his salary, though small, actually made him a negative. I bet if the Jazz were able to keep one of their picks they would've been forced to keep Koko.

The Memphis pick was so protected I don't think it had much value. It probably ends up as cash anyway, which is probably the best value you can squeeze out of it.

The Jazz' pick is worse than the Memphis one. I guess Minnesota can maybe derive some value out of these picks by packaging them for something better. And so could the Jazz too.
Oh, wait they already did.


RealGM article = F
 
These so called "experts" over-value Boozer and do not have much of an understanding of the Jazz players and their capabilities. They look at records and stats, not many actual games. Millsap will probably do just as well as Boozer (or close), and Jefferson will be light-years ahead of Okur, who was a liability for most of the season. Additionally, I think Hayward will be a good addition, easily as good as Matthews. Miles should be more consistent by now, and Bell adds much needed toughness.

We will be fine. In fact, I think we'll be better than most people realize, possibly even a serious threat to the Lakers.
 
On the bright side, I'm glad these vacant writers keep espousing the shame ****. It helps the Jazz to fly under the radar and "surprise" everyone. "Wow! They made the playoffs WITHOUT Carlos Boozer?!"

To which I once again repeat: "Boozer sucks."
 
Full article.

https://jazz.realgm.com/articles/43/20100714/grading_the_deal_jazz_replace_boozer_with_jefferson/



I'll be the first to admit that no one will know how the trade will ultimately work out for Utah, but a B- is terrible. We gave up what? A couple of first rounders (one protected) and KOKO for Jefferson who was playing in triangle system not tailored for his game to a Utah system that is meant and created for a low-post type guy like him? Dude is gonna shine if he stays healthy. This is as bad as if the realgm guy gave the Lakers an A- for the Pau Gasol trade, right?

This article is ridiculous. They are grading the deal, not our off-season. So, they are grading Jefferson for 2 protected first rounders. We also dumped Kosta's salary in the process (which Minni did not even want). How can that be anything less than an A for us? We gave up nothing and got a 25 year old Center who averaged 20 and 10 with 1.5 blocks for Wolves. This article is idiotic. And what about your point about Gasol trade, did they really rate it A-? I mean, this was the biggest steal in NBA history, and cannot be anything but A+. Even opposing GMs (including KOC) where shocked it happened.
 
I'm really not sure how Jefferson's acquisition makes Millsap's role "murky."
C/PF = 96 mins/game. Three man rotation (Millsap, Jefferson and Okur - once healthy). With Big Al able to play either the 4 or 5, that would give all three 32 mins if divided equally. But I'm guessing Jefferson gets 38, Paul gets 35 if he can keep out of foul trouble and somewhere in the mid-20's for Okur. Then a sprinkling of Fes at C or AK at PF as needed (and more if Okur isn't ready to go opening night).

But I can understand the B- grade. Without knowledge of the Jazz, you'd have to look at Jefferson/Boozer, Korver/Hayward and Bell/Matthews as no better than a wash. Nothing special on face value.

IMO, though, I think adding a true low-post player in Al will be much better than having another season of Boozer fadeaways. It will open up the outside for others if teams have to double down on Jefferson. I also think Jefferson will be better on defense, one year removed form surgery and with at least a stated desire to "get nasty."

Jazz need to do two things from here on out:
1. Look to upgrade the starting 5.
2. Ugrade the core 8 1/2.
I say 8 1/2 because the Jazz look like they want a 3-man rotation at the 4/5, 4 players at the 2/3 and Deron + a short-min backup at PG.

1. Okur, Millsap, Jefferson. Not too shabby. Obviously with Okur not being a great defender, coming off an injury, and getting up there in years, the idea would be to replace him with a defender/shotblocker. That's easier said than done, however.

2. AK, CJ, Raja, Gordon. Unless Hayward develops into a starter, I think the Jazz have four backups here. I'm in favor of trading AK's expiring for a starter making about 1/2 as much. Then you could still use part of the MLE next season to sign a better backup PG. Give CJ this year to show what he's got, but he's definite trade material if a better option comes up in trade proposal.

3. Deron, Price/Gaines. A superstar and two undersized SG's. Jazz need to find a 15 min/per player. The dropoff is way too steep when Deron comes out, and he often has to re-enter games too soon (or make up a ton of ground that was lost). The way Deron plays, he should be getting no more than 35 mins/per. And less against weak teams.
 
Nice post Glasseater.
To add - even if the team was exactly the same as last year (Korver, Brewer still on team) and only the Boozer for Jefferson trade happened, Jazz are better. We witnessed the past few seasons that Boozer and Millsap make the frontcourt murky. They're essentially the same player. Whereas Jefferson brings a different kind of player that compliments the type of player Millsap/Boozer is. Okur is also a different kind of player. These different weapons each of these players bring works very well together (in theory) -- better than what we've seen of the Boozer squad (in reality).

Defense - Jefferson admits he's not known for being a good defender but the fact that he acknowledged this and stated that he wants to get better there - citing that he's a 5 and the 5 is the captain on defense - already is an upgrade over Boozer, who seemed to believe his game had no flaws whatsoever. Jefferson's vocal commitment to defense is helped by the fact that he's longer and averages a block more per game. Already better than Boozer but I'm eager to see those numbers go up now that he's excited to commit to defense on his new team.

The other two pieces - Brewer, Korver for Raja, Hayward.
Raja is a huge upgrade defensively over Korver and about equal from 3 pt. How is this not an upgrade? ...because he hasn't played much the past couple years? He's old? He doesn't have as many minutes on his tires as other 34 year olds. And he brings the steel veteran quality that Korver couldn't. HUGE UPGRADE. I think it's better than Matthews.
Hayward is a rookie so the jury's out. He has a better outside shot than Brewer but he probably won't be as good a defender. It's hard to say, but given the fact that Hayward never broke his arm as a kid (not that I know of, but if he did at least it didn't cause him to learn to shoot wrong) gives him a chance to be a big upgrade from Brewer from the outside. Hopefully he'll become a good defender too.

But it's not like Minnesota got Brewer out of the deal anyway. they got a coupla crappy, albeit first round, picks. And Kosta freaking Koufos. Score.
 
Every analysis I have heard outside of a few locals think we are almost as good as we were last year. Not sure I disagree. Acting like Big Al makes us a number 2 seed in the West is a real stretch. And I am still not convinced Raja can contribute like he did in the past. There is a lot of kool aid being consumed by jazzfanz particpants.
 
Most of these online analysts are real amateurs and don't know what they're talking about. Kahn's biggest mistake was signing Darko; for some reason, they chose him instead of AJ. Guess they think him and Love make a better duo, but Darko is pretty bad. I think in one of the Jazz games with Minny he was matched up with Kosta, and Kosta was outplaying him. And we all know how poorly Kosta was playing last year -- but I saw some hope for Kosta in his summer league play.
 
Every analysis I have heard outside of a few locals think we are almost as good as we were last year. Not sure I disagree. Acting like Big Al makes us a number 2 seed in the West is a real stretch. And I am still not convinced Raja can contribute like he did in the past. There is a lot of kool aid being consumed by jazzfanz particpants.
If we're just as good, then we'll contend for the #2 seed. Add a couple of wins to our horrible start last season. Or take away our fade at the end. Heck, just take away that last home loss to Phoenix and we move up 2 spots into the 3rd seed.

IMO, this team is certainly capable of improving by a couple of games. And I'm not counting on Raja to come in and give us 30 mins. Jazz could easily go with CJ and AK as the starters at 35 mins/each. Then we're counting on Raja and Hayward to play 13 mins/per.

Bottom line is the WC will again be extremely competitive. I'm expecting all playoff teams will again win at least 50 games. LA is the clear favorite to win 57-60 and get the #1 seed. After that, any of about 8 teams could win 55-56 and take the 2nd seed.
 
If the Mavericks almost landed Jefferson without giving up picks while ALSO unloading their own bad contracts onto Minnesota, then I see no good reason the Jazz couldn't have landed Jefferson just for the TPE. RealGM was being generous with a B- if Jefferson remains the same player (complete garbage on D, even worse passer, doesn't feature any kind of prominence in pick-and-____ schemes).

If Jefferson was merely a victim of circumstance and he learns to fit in and expand what Utah does, then the grade changes.
 
.....Jazz grade should be A+! We unloaded a malcontent, replaced him with a quicker, smarter, younger player for less the cost......we brought in a defensive vet and saved even more money....and we signed the smartest college player out of the whole draft who also happens to have talent and skills.
 
If the Mavericks almost landed Jefferson without giving up picks while ALSO unloading their own bad contracts onto Minnesota, then I see no good reason the Jazz couldn't have landed Jefferson just for the TPE. RealGM was being generous with a B- if Jefferson remains the same player (complete garbage on D, even worse passer, doesn't feature any kind of prominence in pick-and-____ schemes).

If Jefferson was merely a victim of circumstance and he learns to fit in and expand what Utah does, then the grade changes.

If the Mavericks almost landed Jefferson without giving up picks while ALSO unloading their own bad contracts onto Minnesota, then I see no good reason the Jazz couldn't have landed Jefferson just for the TPE. RealGM was being generous with a B- if Jefferson remains the same player (complete garbage on D, even worse passer, doesn't feature any kind of prominence in pick-and-____ schemes).

If Jefferson was merely a victim of circumstance and he learns to fit in and expand what Utah does, then the grade changes.

The grade itself makes no sense to me. You should be the first to admit that getting a proven 20-10 PF while giving up two mid teen picks and KK, taking on less salary and years than the Boozer deal, and essentially getting the guy for nothing, is a huge win. Yes, whether he pans out does matter. But we're not grading Big Al's performance with the Jazz, he hasn;t even played with them yet. We're grading the deal.

You and I have discussed this and we've agreed, Boozer was valuable and his 20-10 status was a huge factor. You have to give Big Al the same respect. He even produced without the support Boozer had in Utah. He was the 1 focal point on his team and he dominated the competition offensively. Fighting through double and triple teams down low and putting up better numbers than Boozer before his ACL tear. Even though the grade doesn't account for any of this, a B- is still low when you think about it logically.

As for your assessment of his skill set, we disagree on a few things. For one I don't think we can properly assess his passing skills yet. He didn't pass much in Minni because his teammates sucked and most of the time he was able to create his own offense in the low block. As far as pick & ____ situations, the jury is again still out. But I have great confidence in him here. He's more of a roller than a pop guy, and I think the Jazz need that. Granted, Boozers pop game was great, but he never challenged opponents length. Big Al has and will dive inside and take it to the chests of Gasol's, Bynum's, Noah's, and Howard's. FINALLY!!!! Making this huge dudes work on both ends, Boozer always settled for the jumper instead of challenging length. This will be huge, trust me. We've both seen what Big Al can do offensively against the Jazz, he ripped us to pieces inside, which doesn't say much. But he also has taken it to the Lakers with great success. I'm telling you, we'll be more effective offensively at the PF/C against LA with Big Al.

Defense is where we agree and I think we've seen the same things. Against the Jazz he was almost worse than Boozer on defense. This is why I wasn't a big supporter of his acquisition this offseason. He was ****ing terrible on D. If you thought Boozer was a matador, oh man, Big Al wasn't even in the arena most the time. I remember really enjoying Big Al's offensive game with he played the Jazz, but thought his D was the worst, and it was. There is room for hope here. He's now on a team where his teammate will be playing defense, that at least gives him a little incentive to D up. He a shot blocker and has more length than Boozer, at least have this to work with where Boozer had nothing in this department. I'm not saying he'll become a defensive juggernaut, but he's young and motivated, and has a chance to improve. He at least publicly acknowledges his lack of defensive ability and his desire to improve. We heard Boozer chat all day about how defense was important, but not once did he admit his short comings or take any responsibility. Ultimately, Big Al will need a defensive center behind him, that hole still needs to be filled. But I think he'll alter shots better than Boozer.

Again, we've discussed this before, 20-10 means something. It's rare enough to earn Big Al some leeway and respect.
 
Some respect. I'm just saying the selfishness of his game is as bad or worse than Boozer's even if he's a more sincere interview. Maybe something changes in Utah, but I'm going off of what he's been, not what I'm hoping he'll be.

My point, though, is that everything is relative. If Jefferson could've been unloaded for no picks and picking up significant crap salary, then his market-value wasn't very high. What it looks like to me is that the Jazz paid a premium (two 1st-rounders and KK) to get Jefferson into training camp as oppose to getting him mid-season just with the TPE. Which makes some sense, obviously, but I'm not sure it's worth the price.

And if the Jazz really did use one of their 1st-rounders to dump $1.7 million in salary, Jazz fans have a lot of similar moves to look forward to this season (which if it hasn't been figured out, is a completely awful, awful move).
 
I think Jefferson's play in Minnesota was a bit selfish, but I'm one of the many who seem to be willing to give him a pass on that. I think it's clear that Jefferson works his *** off and is sincere about winning. I think he allowed that to snowball on him in Minny and he was reluctant to let anybody else help because he didn't think anybody else could. It's funny how players like that get to Utah and all of a sudden start to realize that when you give the ball up, good things tend to happen.

I also don't critisize Utah for giving up more than what Dallas was going to give up to land Jefferson. Dallas was at the table before Utah, the Jazz came in and made a better offer to secure the player they wanted. They were able to accomplish this while still manageing not to over pay for the player IMO. I don't see how you classify that as anything less than great business by Utah.

Numberica Wrote
RealGM was being generous with a B- if Jefferson remains the same player (complete garbage on D, even worse passer, doesn't feature any kind of prominence in pick-and-____ schemes).

I can't help but laugh when people use flat out lies to try and make their point. In regards to Jefferson's "prominence" on the pick and roll, when he was asked to do it in Minnesota, he did just fine. He just wasn't asked to do it often. Jefferson will not be a pick and pop player. Last year in Minnesota, he ran the pick and roll 75 times. Each and every time he rolled directly to the basket and had a better than average conversion percentage. Not only that, anybody who still believes that the pick and roll is still Utah's bread and butter is wrong. Utah was in the middle of the NBA for 2010 in regards to the amount of pick and rolls ran.

So let's make sure we have an understanding on this: When asked to run the pick and roll, Al Jefferson has already proven to be very effective and.....Even if it was a weak spot in his game, Utah doesn't run it as much as they used to so it's not as if Al's success in Utah is tied to the pick and roll in any way, shape, or form. With that being said, I think Utah will actually run more pick and rolls in 2011 because of Big Al's willingness to attack the hoop off of the roll. Boozer wanted no part of rolling to the middle. He would rather pick and pop all day long and shoot the J.
 
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