Report: Gordon Hayward, Utah Jazz discussing contract extension

[orangello]

I'm not getting into that discussion on Jazzfanz. Anything less than comparing Favors to God and this place turns into the dungeon on Hostel.

But I will leave you with this nice picture. Favors' shot chart is so embarrassing that NBA won't put him on their advanced stats list. That's why he won't get Ibaka money.

This. I love Favors but Ibaka is the superior player right now without question.

 

[orangello]

If only we had actually played these guys so we could KNOW how much they're currently worth...

Yup

 

[orangello]

This.



And this.

This.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

My point is that that is not necessarily safer. If they are not as good as everyone hopes or thinks they will be but the Jazz are paying for that then that is bad. Don't think for a second that Favors is oblivious to this being his year to get his money either and deciding to take $8 mil/year just because he knows he hasn't proven much yet.

I don't think this is as simple as everyone seems to be making this out to be or it would be done already.

Just like with everything else in life, everything is subject to everything.

Why does everyone assume that Favors or Hayward will take less now than they think they will be worth in free agency?

Long story short, I think Hayward and Favors will be worth more after this year.

Short story long-vvv

Either way is a risk, in my opinion there is more benefit to signing them now if things work out the way I think things are more likely to turn out given the minutes and improvement I think are likely for those two. Is it a given, absolutely not. We have seen improvement out of Hayward every year so far and I have no reason to think it will not continue this year with more opportunities. With Favors I am less sure of what we he will do, but at the same time his ceiling may be higher so I personally like the idea of taking that risk. If he explodes next year and increases his "stock" dramatically an extension will save us some cash to put into other good players. Yes, I understand there is still risk that he will crap out and stay about the same, I just don't see that happening with him being a starter and getting every opportunity to show what he's got.

I really think not pursuing an extension sends a negative message to both of those players, and as the team wants them both to be the team leaders this year, we need to send them every positive message we can. If you think one or both will suck next year, that's a different story altogether, but I don't think that's the case.

I think you are jumping to conclusions about us jumping to conclusions. It is about risk. Imo, and in the o of others, there is less risk signing them to an extension than waiting until next off-season. They are a known quantity right now and if we can extend them at a reasonable price for that quantity right now, that poses a lesser risk than waiting to see what they do this next season and finding out what the market will bear. Yes, it can go both ways, we get that, but I think the risk is greater if we wait than if we get them to sign extensions now.

Because potential isn't present. They know that they could get injured next year and have their value decrease, additionally, both have said they like it here in Utah and want to stay. Favors recently bough a house, and Hayward recently said he is extremely happy here. I'm not saying it is certain a deal gets done this year, I just hope it does.

-both good posts imho

 

[Deleted member 848]

Extend both, if the price is right. Jazz managed to pin Millsaps value quite well when they offered him the extension-- so I have full trust in them.

 

[franklin]

How again was Favors taking 568 shots last season plus all of the practice that JAZZ BRASS see every day not a chance for the Jazz to gauge his value?

How was Hayward playing over 2100 minutes and taking more shots than Candy Boye last season plus all of the practice that JAZZ BRASS see every day not a chance for the Jazz to gauge his value?

That argument is intellectually bankrupt. The start this season so they'll automatically shine where they did not last year argument is also DOA.



Because we don't know their value has no bearing on the FO or the league gauging value. The league is not pricing Hayward as a sure fire 3rd string All Star, and Favors is nothing more than the potential story that never really panned out on offense but plays good roam d and inferior post d so you need to pair him with a Kendrick Perkins, or a Kanter.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

How again was Favors taking 568 shots last season plus all of the practice that JAZZ BRASS see every day not a chance for the Jazz to gauge his value?

How was Hayward playing over 2100 minutes and taking more shots than Candy Boye last season plus all of the practice that JAZZ BRASS see every day not a chance for the Jazz to gauge his value?

That argument is intellectually bankrupt. The start this season so they'll automatically shine where they did not last year argument is also DOA.



Because we don't know their value has no bearing on the FO or the league gauging value. The league is not pricing Hayward as a sure fire 3rd string All Star, and Favors is nothing more than the potential story that never really panned out on offense but plays good roam d and inferior post d so you need to pair him with a Kendrick Perkins, or a Kanter.

The FO should have a decent idea of what these two can do, but only to a certain extent with Favors and a little bit of uncertainty with Hayward. There is still some grey area about what they will do when the team is "theirs" and they don't have to dump every play down to the black hole on the block. I'd like to see what these guys can do with some ball movement and no designated 1 on 4 play called every other time down the floor. It could be eye opening if they do this right.

 

[franklin]

The FO should have a decent idea of what these two can do, but only to a certain extent with Favors and a little bit of uncertainty with Hayward. There is still some grey area about what they will do when the team is "theirs" and they don't have to dump every play down to the black hole on the block. I'd like to see what these guys can do with some ball movement and no designated 1 on 4 play called every other time down the floor. It could be eye opening if they do this right.

This is the first time that I've said I've heard this 1000 times that I actually have heard this 1000 times.

Favors had plenty of plays called for him, and plenty of movement on plays where he was an option. He couldn't get the job done in five hundred and sixty eight shots (806 total plays involved), which is one reason why Jefferson got so many looks last year. 99/100 fanz see it completely opposite of how it really was.

I also find it completely bizarre to suggest that Favors is suddenly going to excel at things he failed at just because Al Jefferson is removed from the lineup. Favors' improvement will be about Favors alone.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

This is the first time that I've said I've heard this 1000 times that I actually have heard this 1000 times.

Favors had plenty of plays called for him, and plenty of movement on plays where he was an option. He couldn't get the job done in five hundred and sixty eight shots (806 total plays involved), which is one reason why Jefferson got so many looks last year. 99/100 fanz see it completely opposite of how it really was.

I also find it completely bizarre to suggest that Favors is suddenly going to excel at things he failed at just because Al Jefferson is removed from the lineup. Favors' improvement will be about Favors alone.

Sometimes the crutch needs to be removed for someone to learn to stand on their own two feet.

 

[Litany]

This is the first time that I've said I've heard this 1000 times that I actually have heard this 1000 times.

Favors had plenty of plays called for him, and plenty of movement on plays where he was an option. He couldn't get the job done in five hundred and sixty eight shots (806 total plays involved), which is one reason why Jefferson got so many looks last year. 99/100 fanz see it completely opposite of how it really was.

I also find it completely bizarre to suggest that Favors is suddenly going to excel at things he failed at just because Al Jefferson is removed from the lineup. Favors' improvement will be about Favors alone.

The Harden situation is a prime example of not knowing a players value because of his limited role.


I guaranasstee you they would have dealt Ibaka or gotten WAY more in return for Harden if they would have known he'd perform like he did last year in a larger role instead of sixth man.

Can you stop with this "intellectually bankrupt" blanket statements now ?

We don't know how they will perform and what their true value is.

I'm not saying either one is as good as Harden or close, my point is we don't know the value until they have a significant role and see what they do with it. We see potential. So we either take the risk and sign them for what we think it is or let them play and either its lower or they blow up.

I've heard people talk about how players prepare differently and perform different when they know their contribution will be significant and valuable.

 

[franklin]

The Harden situation is a prime example of not knowing a players value because of his limited role.

LOL that's why Houston gave him the $80mm maximum.

 

[b_line]

How again was Favors taking 568 shots last season plus all of the practice that JAZZ BRASS see every day not a chance for the Jazz to gauge his value?

How was Hayward playing over 2100 minutes and taking more shots than Candy Boye last season plus all of the practice that JAZZ BRASS see every day not a chance for the Jazz to gauge his value?

That argument is intellectually bankrupt. The start this season so they'll automatically shine where they did not last year argument is also DOA.



Because we don't know their value has no bearing on the FO or the league gauging value. The league is not pricing Hayward as a sure fire 3rd string All Star, and Favors is nothing more than the potential story that never really panned out on offense but plays good roam d and inferior post d so you need to pair him with a Kendrick Perkins, or a Kanter.

So are we all missing something here that ball park frank is picking up? If favors gets minutes this year, he will average more than 15 points, 11 rebounds and three blocks per game. Seriously. That is without any improvement in his game. That is just adding minutes. If you don't believe that increased minutes lead to increased production at a similar rate, then you don't really watch the jazz. Millsap did it, Matthews did it, Stockton did it. When a bench guy getting minutes like favors is gets a starting role, the production translates.

If we let favors get a contract on the market, we will pay wayyyyyyy more when he is putting up 15, 11 and 3 blocks than we will now. With those numbers he is a max guy. Book it.

And what is this crap about having to pair him with Perkins or kanter? They are vastly different players. Perkins sucks balls and looks like he is constantly sniffing a fart. Kanter will be so good offensively that there won't be room for other post offense anyways. They are the perfect pair. The jazz need to keep favors, and get him locked up now.