addictionary
Well-Known Member
No that's lavine. And he is more impressive.
No that's lavine. And he is more impressive.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
^ I wanted Lavine soo bad, and even moreso now.
I'd throw Trey, OKC first, Tibor Pleis, and this year's #12 at MIN to see what they say.
I'd throw Trey, OKC first, Tibor Pleis, and this year's #12 at MIN to see what they say.
Why not throw in Hayward and Gobert, too?
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
Point taken. My proposal is excessive. What I meant is all those assets are in play for me, not that you use all of them.
I salivate over a ten man rotation like this:
PG
Exum, Lavine, Neto
SG
Burks, Hood, Lavine
SF
Hayward, Hood, Burks
PF
Favors, Booker, Hayward
C
Gobert, Tomic, Favors
With players like Cotton, Johnson, Ingles, and Millsap to fill in when needed.
Last edited:
Lavine is a brainless player, possible recipient of the "Dion Waiters" award in the future. He's one of the worst rookies of all time according to numerous advanced stats(like actually worst, not Dante-level frustrating with his passivity, but when you actually look deeper you see he's helping you win). Horrendous defender, brainless scorer in offense.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
^ the thing that I think a lot of you don't realize is advanced stats are relatively new, and players are coming to the league less prepared than ever before with the one-and done culture and stigma for players who stay longer. Judging talented, yet inexperienced players, off of advanced stats solely is naive. For young players who are uber talented, have nba gifts, but are very inexperienced, you have to account for growth.
We have one of the best coaching staffs for developing players. We can take the risk on these hyper talented/inexperienced players. If Lavine was dumb with no desire, that would be another thing entirely. By all accounts, he stays in the gym and wants to be great. Flip Saunders is not the coach for him.
We have one of the best coaching staffs for developing players. We can take the risk on these hyper talented/inexperienced players. If Lavine was dumb with no desire, that would be another thing entirely. By all accounts, he stays in the gym and wants to be great. Flip Saunders is not the coach for him.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
I want Hood too. My offer is Trey, and picks.
framer
Well-Known Member
Bringing Flip Saunders into the conversation is actually a pretty strong card in defense of Lavine. It's hard to tell if some of the stupidity could be coached out when it is likely being coached IN. Good job. . .
Is your proposal excessive? You're giving them garbage. Now I don't personally like Lavine, but if you do, then you're trading him for our garbage + a nice pick.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
How is a lottery pick, another future first rounder, and the choice of the PG they initially drafted, or a euro stash, garbage?
That deal would be garvage if Lavine was proven, but he's not yet. We still have to develop him to play winning basketball.
Not an honest answer. I didn't included the lottery pick in the "garbage", so that's taken care of. OKC's first isn't that appealing given that we may never even get it. Best case, it's a late teen pick. So whatever. And they never picked Trey. Is this a joke? They picked him because we asked them to pick him for the trade. He currently has no value as he's a **** player.
So ya. Garbage.
That's not exactly true. Trey has been pretty bad but I think he has some marginal value because he's on a rookie contract and has room to improve and has shown that in limited role he can be a useful piece off the bench. The problem right now with him and the Jazz is that his role is not limited and we expect him to create offense and finish our offense when we have nobody else on the floor to do that. I'd say he's worth at least a second round pick right now. Also Pleiss has value too. OKC were about to get him over to be their back up last year, he will too be on a team-friendly contract whenever he comes over. I'd say he's worth a at least a second round pick, too.
Okay, so he has a second round pick value. The question was whether you think Lavine is among the best rookies in this draft (second to Wiggins!). Burks is a good player. But if someone suggested we trade Burks for Curry, then he'd be suggesting we trade Curry for garbage, relatively speaking. To call Lavine a proven top 3 pick, then suggest that trading him for a 12th + 20th + second round pick to be "excessive" is nonsense. That's all I'm saying. If he's that good, then that trade would be a steal for us.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
I didn't call him that. I love his potential, and always have. I don't think people view him as top 3 at all, though. I think he has that potential, but very unproven at this point. Jabari went down fast, we haven't seen Embiid, or Saric, A. Gordon was hurt a lot of the year, most people like Payton better than Lavine (for good reason too), Mirotic had some monster games, etc.
At this stage, two firsts, and the choice of Trey or Pleis for a player who doesn't help you win yet, isn't garbage. If lavine had a longer track record of empty stats (say proposal was offered next season, instead of offseason) then I could understand your point. Right now, Lavine is just potential and a very good dunker. No track record. No college stats to prove otherwise, either.
On the NBa Rookie ladder he is ranked 10th, and that's w/o us having seen Embiid, Parker, or A-God truly healthy, or Saric who scouts are very high on.
https://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/04/15/2014-15-final-rookie-ladder/index.html
Okay. You seemed to agree with addictionary that Lavine is second most impressive rookie behind Wiggins. In that case, the trade would be a no-brainer. But you're right. If he's just barely a top 10 player in the draft, then offering 12th pick + sweetener would be fair. Still nothing excessive. I doubt anyone would think they came out on top even.
I would do the trade regardless. I don't think Lavine is great, but whoever we draft with the 12th pick would carry some risk as well. At least we know Lavine is likely to develop into a nice offensive player, and can be a boon off the bench. OKC's pick doesn't excite me at all, and Burke is bad.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
Just because I agree, or lean that way, shouldn't matter. All that should matter is his value to MIN , value to us, and his league-wide value.
Yeah, I agree, I just don't agree with the evaluation of Lavine as a top 3 pick. I don't think he's shown that he's worth even the pick he was drafted with, let alone top 3.