jacktheripper
Well-Known Member
From the NBA's YouTube channel...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwJ__4ke_wI&feature=youtube_gdata
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwJ__4ke_wI&feature=youtube_gdata
Rudy Gobert - 2015/2016 Defensive Player Of The Year Push
- Thread starter Hotdog
- Start date
spycam1
Well-Known Member
Is it bad...
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
"Gobert is French for NASTY!"
Says it all right there.
Says it all right there.
Okay find me a stat that is a better indicator of defensive prowess. No stat is perfect, this one is pretty good.
You're joking, right? Cousins is an elite defender. RPG, BPG, DRPM, pick your stat. Or just watch him play or listen to a credible analyst/ scout. A beast on both O and D. I think he kinda gets screwed for awards and allstars since he is such a jerk.
Litany
Well-Known Member
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
LOL
https://espn.go.com/blog/marc-stein/category/_/name/trimester-report
ESPN has Gobert as the DPOY in the 2nd trimester.
ESPN has Gobert as the DPOY in the 2nd trimester.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
I don't believe in relying on stats to indicate who is good and who isnt. There are just too many factors that go into why the stat may read the way it does.
If Cody Zeller and Andre Roberson are ranked ahead of Gobert then something has to be wrong with the indicator.
If we were to build teams to face off against each other and I got to choose my players just by watching them and not looking at stats, while you got to pick your player's strictly from just the stats without watching them, then I guarantee I could easily assemble a better team than you could. If you were relying solely on the analytics
Seriously. If you want to build defense, are you going to pick Cody Zeller or Rudy Gobert?
Another quirk of the season? Jazz have 7 "scalps" (season lows in points). Who are those scalps? San Antonio, Denver, Portland, Chicago, Brooklyn and two in a row of Charlotte and the Lakers.
Wonder who else has so many scalps. Time to add Golden State to the list...
Wonder who else has so many scalps. Time to add Golden State to the list...
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
Never heard that phrase, but I like it. Jazz should make it their goal to scalp the whole damn league next year.
Just made it up lol.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
It should be an official term for those. That's how I'm going to refer to them from now on.
#ScalpTheWholeLeague15/16
fishonjazz
Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
I agree that gobert should obviously be ranked ahead of zeller in defense but as far as picking a team relying only on analytics goes, I'm pretty sure you would end up with a pretty dope *** team doing it that way
I have a feeling that players like lebron, harden, curry, westbrook, etc have really good player efficiency ratings
If you had to build a team without looking at stats it would take a long *** time to watch every player in the NBA enough to get a good feel for how good they actually are to be able to build a team.
I would much rather build a team off stat sheets than just watching. It would take way too long and not be very accurate.
The argument is dumb though because an all or nothing approach either way isn't the way to go.
I would much rather build a team off stat sheets than just watching. It would take way too long and not be very accurate.
The argument is dumb though because an all or nothing approach either way isn't the way to go.
#ScalpTheLeague
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
But which way is more likely to misguided you?
I would pick Lebron and Curry without ever looking at the stat sheet. I wouldn't pick Zeller, or I wouldn't pick someone like Al Jefferson. But if you are relying heavily on the analytics then you could easily make the mistake of picking one of those scrubs, or some scrub off of the 76ers or something. Who are mostly just looters in a riot.
I agree you wouldn't use just one. But the eye test has to be the first and last factor you go off of. Only using analytics to double check what you think you are seeing.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
Trust the tape. It doesn't lie. The best scouts still use their eyes to tell them if a player can play or not. Stats and analytics can help identify strengths and weaknesses, while measurables and workouts can give you an indication of how well a player will make the jump from college to pros. . . but I've always felt that their tape is the BEST indicator of future success.
-----------------
That would be a good argument if someone were advocating that you close your eyes and use stats only. But since no one is saying that your point is hard to find. Any serious NBA mind understands that each stat has limits and to use it blindly is utterly stupid. Not just basketball.
-------------------
Enlightened minds use stats to build off of their natural insights, not to replace them as you suggest. So in this case, is one believes Zeller he sucks on D, you may want to go back and test and reconsider your belief. He may not be at the top, but this stat is probably telling you something -- at least directionally.
-----------------------
When you pose a simplistic either A (watch games) or B (look at stats), this is a false choice and one that no serious person would consider.
And to your question: seriously would I choose Zeller over Gobert? I reply, "durrrr, yup, because that is what the numbers say and I refuse to think about anything but the numbers" (sarcasm)
---------------------
Finally, you did not answer my question: is there a better stat that is an overall indicator of defensive prowess? Because unless you do advocate using NO defensive stats, then I assume you must look at SOME defensive stats. tick tock.