Rudy

[JimLes]

The one getting paid over $20 million a year specifically because of his defense and the one super max eligible because of back to back DPOY awards, yeah. I hold him to a higher standard, and that’s not wrong. Do your job and stop whining.

He's not even the highest paid player on the team. And the highest paid player on the team, having joined it not even a year ago, is apparently allowed to do whatever he wants. And according to you, Rudy should just shut up and act like none of this is his business.

Rudy's been tired this year because he's been asked to do both his job and other people's jobs. Defensive failures affect perimeter players and centres very differently. When Conley and Mitchell get beaten by their man because instead of moving their feet, they just flapped their arms towards him and then shrugged their shoulders as if there was nothing they could to there(watch how many times that happened this season), the man who beat them will then drive on Rudy. Or because the defense is now scrambling, pass to another teammate who is going to drive on Rudy. Defensive failure on the perimeter becomes Rudy's problem. When the opposite happens and Rudy's man drives past him, Mike Conley isn't tasked with stopping that man. People getting beaten on the perimeter creates more work for Rudy. A lot more.

That's why Rudy's pissed and he should be pissed. Unless you're a stooge and you buy into your employer's ********, you should always be pissed when you're asked to do your work and that of your colleagues. And this has been going on all year. Look at the DRtg of Bojan, Joe, Donovan, and Mike. Just getting worse and worse every month of the season. They've all been playing less and less defense as the season progressed. Not like you need DRtg to see that, if you've watched the team play. Rudy's DRtg has actually stayed surprisingly stable, though even he took a dip in February. Not nearly as large as the others, but hey, let's keep calling him out for it.

Rudy is human, too. It's ridiculous to expect him to act like everything is okay when there's dysfunction all around him. He's affected by all this. Oh, he's been complaining. Good. Someone should be. We have the team deciding to bench Conley, that information leaking, then the team deciding not to bench Conley because his agent got involved, and then the team acting like this wasn't a major screw up. This whole season has been an exercise in sunk cost fallacy. We put all our eggs in one basket for the next two seasons by trading for an over-the-hill undersized PG who desperately needs the ball in his hands. Then when it didn't work(it was never going to, when you look at the make up of the team), the FO just kept upping the ante and trying even harder to make it work. But yeah, I guess Rudy shouldn't whine. He should just shut up and do his job while Mike Conley gets treated like he's Karl Malone.

 

[416Klawzz]

I remember being beyond pissed but I don't remember the details of the final few minutes. I do remember Don sucked *** though.

when he chucks or fails to show up we lose. I think Gobert has sucked less than Mitchell this year

 

[416Klawzz]

He's not even the highest paid player on the team. And the highest paid player on the team, having joined it not even a year ago, is apparently allowed to do whatever he wants. And according to you, Rudy should just shut up and act like none of this is his business.

Rudy's been tired this year because he's been asked to do both his job and other people's jobs. Defensive failures affect perimeter players and centres very differently. When Conley and Mitchell get beaten by their man because instead of moving their feet, they just flapped their arms towards him and then shrugged their shoulders as if there was nothing they could to there(watch how many times that happened this season), the man who beat them will then drive on Rudy. Or because the defense is now scrambling, pass to another teammate who is going to drive on Rudy. Defensive failure on the perimeter becomes Rudy's problem. When the opposite happens and Rudy's man drives past him, Mike Conley isn't tasked with stopping that man. People getting beaten on the perimeter creates more work for Rudy. A lot more.

That's why Rudy's pissed and he should be pissed. Unless you're a stooge and you buy into your employer's ********, you should always be pissed when you're asked to do your work and that of your colleagues. And this has been going on all year. Look at the DRtg of Bojan, Joe, Donovan, and Mike. Just getting worse and worse every month of the season. They've all been playing less and less defense as the season progressed. Not like you need DRtg to see that, if you've watched the team play. Rudy's DRtg has actually stayed surprisingly stable, though even he took a dip in February. Not nearly as large as the others, but hey, let's keep calling him out for it.

Rudy is human, too. It's ridiculous to expect him to act like everything is okay when there's dysfunction all around him. He's affected by all this. Oh, he's been complaining. Good. Someone should be. We have the team deciding to bench Conley, that information leaking, then the team deciding not to bench Conley because his agent got involved, and then the team acting like this wasn't a major screw up. This whole season has been an exercise in sunk cost fallacy. We put all our eggs in one basket for the next two seasons by trading for an over-the-hill undersized PG who desperately needs the ball in his hands. Then when it didn't work(it was never going to, when you look at the make up of the team), the FO just kept upping the ante and trying even harder to make it work. But yeah, I guess Rudy shouldn't whine. He should just shut up and do his job while Mike Conley gets treated like he's Karl Malone.

wow, well said man!

 

[Beer]

when he chucks or fails to show up we lose. I think Gobert has sucked less than Mitchell this year

True but defense is much much easier to be consistent at than being a #1 offensive option. Gobert had been garbage since the Dallas win at home.

 

[JimLes]

And just so I'm not talking out of my rear end, here are some numbers. Rudy has been amazing when it comes to opponent FG% at the rim. He's at 50.6% this year, and the only player who gets challenged at a rim more than 4 times a game with a better average is Brook Lopez. And he's not ahead by much.

The NBA on average shoots a devilish .666 at the rim. The Jazz exceed the league average, mostly because Ingles, Bojan and Gobert are great at finishing at the rim. The Lakers and the Bucks lead the league at FG% at the rim, for what it's worth. The Jazz are 5th. Mitchell is .626 at the rim this year and Gobert is at .761. Conley and Mudiay are the worst at finishing at the rim on the Jazz and they are both around .580.

The Bucks also lead the league at defending FG% at the rim, and the Jazz are in the middle of the pack.

Now, Rudy's actually been better this year than in the past. His percentages the last 3 years have been 54.7, 53.2, and 50.6. So much for Rudy coasting on defense. He's been even better at challenging shots this year(that's his job, right @oneye ), but the difference has been in the amount. As the rest of the Jazz have played poorer defense over the last 3 years, the number of shots Gobert has to challenge at the rim has grown. From 6.6 two years ago, to 7.7 last year, to 8.5 this year. That means that even though Rudy gets harder to score on every year, he is giving up a whole bucket more at the rim this year. Why? Because people are blowing past his teammates. It's not some big secret. Rudy's being asked to do more and he's doing it, and just as an illustration, he's attempting fewer dunks per game this year. Not because he's got bad hands as some of our fellow posters would suggest, or because the teams have "figured out" the pick and roll, but because he's being put in the P&R less and getting fewer looks. Babo has meanwhile managed to double his turnovers compared to two years ago in Indiana, while playing slightly higher minutes and having slightly higher usage. Don't we all get excited when Bojan decides to dribble(behind the back, occasionally even) instead of giving it to someone who could maybe take advantage of Rudy's screens. He's only leading the league in screen assists per game.

On that note, here's a little list of some advanced stats in which Rudy has been top 10 in the league this year. You know, the season he's been pouting, whining, and generally being a diva.

Screen Assists per Game (1st)
Contested Shots per Game (2nd)
Boxouts per Game (8th)
Rebound percentage (5th)

 

[The mailman]

Mmm. No.

DM
Royce/Clarkson
Bogdanovic/Ingles
Insert Strong modern day PF for Rudy
Favors

 

[oneye]

He's not even the highest paid player on the team. And the highest paid player on the team, having joined it not even a year ago, is apparently allowed to do whatever he wants. And according to you, Rudy should just shut up and act like none of this is his business.

Rudy's been tired this year because he's been asked to do both his job and other people's jobs. Defensive failures affect perimeter players and centres very differently. When Conley and Mitchell get beaten by their man because instead of moving their feet, they just flapped their arms towards him and then shrugged their shoulders as if there was nothing they could to there(watch how many times that happened this season), the man who beat them will then drive on Rudy. Or because the defense is now scrambling, pass to another teammate who is going to drive on Rudy. Defensive failure on the perimeter becomes Rudy's problem. When the opposite happens and Rudy's man drives past him, Mike Conley isn't tasked with stopping that man. People getting beaten on the perimeter creates more work for Rudy. A lot more.

That's why Rudy's pissed and he should be pissed. Unless you're a stooge and you buy into your employer's ********, you should always be pissed when you're asked to do your work and that of your colleagues. And this has been going on all year. Look at the DRtg of Bojan, Joe, Donovan, and Mike. Just getting worse and worse every month of the season. They've all been playing less and less defense as the season progressed. Not like you need DRtg to see that, if you've watched the team play. Rudy's DRtg has actually stayed surprisingly stable, though even he took a dip in February. Not nearly as large as the others, but hey, let's keep calling him out for it.

Rudy is human, too. It's ridiculous to expect him to act like everything is okay when there's dysfunction all around him. He's affected by all this. Oh, he's been complaining. Good. Someone should be. We have the team deciding to bench Conley, that information leaking, then the team deciding not to bench Conley because his agent got involved, and then the team acting like this wasn't a major screw up. This whole season has been an exercise in sunk cost fallacy. We put all our eggs in one basket for the next two seasons by trading for an over-the-hill undersized PG who desperately needs the ball in his hands. Then when it didn't work(it was never going to, when you look at the make up of the team), the FO just kept upping the ante and trying even harder to make it work. But yeah, I guess Rudy shouldn't whine. He should just shut up and do his job while Mike Conley gets treated like he's Karl Malone.

Nah, Rudy was pouting over not getting the ball as much as he wanted. Stop trying to do things you're not good at.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

And just so I'm not talking out of my rear end, here are some numbers. Rudy has been amazing when it comes to opponent FG% at the rim. He's at 50.6% this year, and the only player who gets challenged at a rim more than 4 times a game with a better average is Brook Lopez. And he's not ahead by much.

The NBA on average shoots a devilish .666 at the rim. The Jazz exceed the league average, mostly because Ingles, Bojan and Gobert are great at finishing at the rim. The Lakers and the Bucks lead the league at FG% at the rim, for what it's worth. The Jazz are 5th. Mitchell is .626 at the rim this year and Gobert is at .761. Conley and Mudiay are the worst at finishing at the rim on the Jazz and they are both around .580.

The Bucks also lead the league at defending FG% at the rim, and the Jazz are in the middle of the pack.

Now, Rudy's actually been better this year than in the past. His percentages the last 3 years have been 54.7, 53.2, and 50.6. So much for Rudy coasting on defense. He's been even better at challenging shots this year(that's his job, right @oneye ), but the difference has been in the amount. As the rest of the Jazz have played poorer defense over the last 3 years, the number of shots Gobert has to challenge at the rim has grown. From 6.6 two years ago, to 7.7 last year, to 8.5 this year. That means that even though Rudy gets harder to score on every year, he is giving up a whole bucket more at the rim this year. Why? Because people are blowing past his teammates. It's not some big secret. Rudy's being asked to do more and he's doing it, and just as an illustration, he's attempting fewer dunks per game this year. Not because he's got bad hands as some of our fellow posters would suggest, or because the teams have "figured out" the pick and roll, but because he's being put in the P&R less and getting fewer looks. Babo has meanwhile managed to double his turnovers compared to two years ago in Indiana, while playing slightly higher minutes and having slightly higher usage. Don't we all get excited when Bojan decides to dribble(behind the back, occasionally even) instead of giving it to someone who could maybe take advantage of Rudy's screens. He's only leading the league in screen assists per game.

On that note, here's a little list of some advanced stats in which Rudy has been top 10 in the league this year. You know, the season he's been pouting, whining, and generally being a diva.

Screen Assists per Game (1st)
Contested Shots per Game (2nd)
Boxouts per Game (8th)
Rebound percentage (5th)

All of this may be true, but part of the issue, according to Tony Jones, is that Rudy wants to be featured more on offense. Unlike in previous years, the Jazz have multiple alpha scorers on the team, including Mitchell, Bogdanovic, Clarkson, even Mudiay, and they don't pass the ball like Rudy has been used to. Conley has also been limited as a passer due to his size.

Obviously part of the problem is that Rudy can't really score outside of 4 feet from the rim, and more teams have been defending the Jazz with a big who drops back to stay between Rudy and the rim. So Rudy's FGAs and PPG are down a bit from last season.

 

[MCarter]

I’ve said it 1000 times so I’ll say it 10001 times...

WE SHOULD HAVE TRADED RUDY INSTEAD OF FAVORS!

So many mistakes from the FO these last few years...

I love Favors. Really do. With that being said your suggestion to trade a 2x all nba, 2 time dpoy, all star, in his prime instead of an awesome dude who isn’t near as good and struggles to stay on the court with health seems low on logic. Maybe take a few more moments to ponder on that. You might come back around.

 

[JimLes]

All of this may be true, but part of the issue, according to Tony Jones, is that Rudy wants to be featured more on offense. Unlike in previous years, the Jazz have multiple alpha scorers on the team, including Mitchell, Bogdanovic, Clarkson, even Mudiay, and they don't pass the ball like Rudy has been used to. Conley has also been limited as a passer due to his size.

There is still no reason why we can't involved Rudy more. Yeah, we've got more scorers and you'd think they'd accept that with all of them on the team, they might have to cut back a little for the sake of the collective. Instead, Mitchell is averaging more points this year. Babo is averaging more than he ever did. Clarkson is averaging more in SLC this year than he did in Cleveland the first half of the year. I don't buy that those extra 4-5 points come on more efficient shots than what we could get by lobbing the ball(not "skip" passing at his freaking knees) to Rudy.

And it's not even about the shots. Watch some games this season. How many times does Rudy set a pick and the guard waves it off and does something else. Mitchell has been particularly guilty of this. Again, I'll point out that Rudy leads the league in screen assists and probably moves on half of them and gets away with it, giving you the added bonus of absolutely infuriating defenders. Big men are dropping back to contest that in a P&R? Great. All 4 of our main-rotation guards have mid range game and all 4 have floaters in their arsenal. The much maligned Conley seems to be deadly with either had, so this should be a win-win. We simply don't go to it enough.

And I get that Rudy comes off as frustrated, but holy, isn't he entitled to just a little bit of slack here? 2-time DPOY, All NBA-Second team, All-NBA Third team, All-Star. 7 years here and wants to retire here. Can't he ask for a couple of lobs a game? No. "Stop trying to do things you're not good at." Meanwhile, Conley's agent gets to decide our starting 5.

Can we just throw a couple of extra ****ing passes a game to make our best player and franchise cornerstone happy? It's not like he's asking we give Drake a courtside seat and access to the locker room.

 

[vegas]

I'll never be on the ship Rudy out team. I'm probably with the FO to ride it out and gamble that they can work through this, barring some lopsided trade offer. We pretty much shot the moon to be able to assemble this team. It's just the law of averages to have some bump to deal with.

 

[The mailman]

I love Favors. Really do. With that being said your suggestion to trade a 2x all nba, 2 time dpoy, all star, in his prime instead of an awesome dude who isn’t near as good and struggles to stay on the court with health seems low on logic. Maybe take a few more moments to ponder on that. You might come back around.

Obviously Favors is not nearly as good as Gobert. But we got Conley and lost half the team. Rudy would have gotten us something much better than Conley - and more importantly, he would have perhaps given us what we NEEDED - a modern day PF.

And this is just speculation on my part, but perhaps the reason that Favors “struggles to stay on the court for health”, is because too much has been asked of him his entire carrier. He does not belong at the 3 point line - ever. He belongs underneath the basket. He is a center.

 

[LogGrad98]

The truth is, swap Conley for a plus 3&D perimeter defender with size and we're discussing how we overtake the Lakers in first, not trading our DPOY. That's the elephant in the room.

 

[Troat Guru]

The truth is, swap Conley for a plus 3&D perimeter defender with size and we're discussing how we overtake the Lakers in first, not trading our DPOY. That's the elephant in the room.

I totally agree, but is not so easy find one (as far as I concerned)...can you name me a profile (like you said) who is in a team we could have a trade with (involving Mike as you wrote)?
I really can't fint one who could fit well with our team..

 

[infection]

The truth is, swap Conley for a plus 3&D perimeter defender with size and we're discussing how we overtake the Lakers in first, not trading our DPOY. That's the elephant in the room.

Otto Porter, Jr., and yes.

 

[LoPo]

The truth is, swap Conley for a plus 3&D perimeter defender with size and we're discussing how we overtake the Lakers in first, not trading our DPOY. That's the elephant in the room.

There are two elephants in the room:

Conley - his awful contract and questionable fit

Gobert - his desire to stay long term and expectations on a new contract

Of course we upgrade Conley if we can. However, losing Gobert for nothing in 2021 simply can't happen. Since we know Conley is coming off the books in 2021, getting something for Gobert this summer (if determined he is gone) can be added to our targets with our ample 2021 cap space.

In 2021, we could have assets from Rudy trade PLUS a max player or just a max player. Losing Gobert for nothing is a backwards move maybe lateral at best.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Troat Guru]

Otto Porter, Jr., and yes.

Right, I've actually forget him...OPJ could perfectly fit in a trade which include Mike

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

And it's not even about the shots. Watch some games this season. How many times does Rudy set a pick and the guard waves it off and does something else. Mitchell has been particularly guilty of this. Again, I'll point out that Rudy leads the league in screen assists and probably moves on half of them and gets away with it, giving you the added bonus of absolutely infuriating defenders.

Guys like Mitchell, Clarkson and, to a certain extent, Bogdanovic don't play off screens as much. They see themselves as capable scorers, and they're not keen to change their games to use a screen or to try to force the ball to Rudy. And how effective is Rudy when he needs to take a dribble from 5 - 8 feet out? Even Bradley is more versatile and effective at catching and making a move from 5 - 10 feet than Gobert is. Rudy needs to be spoon fed on his roll with perfect timing and spacing. Only Ingles is able to do that consistently, and more often than not, Ingles uses Gobert as a decoy since defenses are staying glued to him.

Also, teams aren't stupid. They're taking away the lob to Gobert at the rim this year. It's a play that gives up 70%+ eFG%, and it's the first shot that teams try to deny. Defenses have changed the way they play the Jazz this year.

And how about Rudy improve his FT%? He could be upping his scoring average just by making one or two more FTs per game. His FT% is off 6 percentage points from last season. Now teams can hack-a-Rudy and hold the Jazz to 1 point per possession if they want to. Rudy's FT shooting has been a liability this season. If Rudy can hit 70% of this FTs, that changes the dynamic of our offense.

So yeah, guys aren't looking for Rudy as much as, say, Rubio did last year. Rudy is less of a priority on offense this year. But this makes sense when you have more versatile scorers like Bogdanovic and Conley on the floor, along with Donovan. Rudy should be the 3rd or 4th option in that scenario.

 

[Chili V]

Since Clarkson joined the team we have the #1 offense in the NBA. How much more offensive would we get by adding a "modern day PF"? I know for sure our defensive would be much worse, and we are only mediocre at best and even in the "bad" category many games. If we play any defense at all we win games. Even games when the offensive is "off" the Jazz are still putting up great offensive numbers. The first goal defensively is to keep opponents from getting to the rim. And we have the best rim protector in the league. If you take Gobert out, our mediocre team defense goes right to the bottom of the league... every night. Our perimeter guys just don't stay in front of their man. You can only space so many guys on the floor. Adding a modern day PF to replace Gobert is folly. Now as a backup C to change things up? Completely different question.

 

[oneye]

Everyone go listen to Tony Jones newest Game Notes podcast with Zach Harper. They give each player on the Jazz a grade for the season, Rudy’s part is something everyone should listen to. He’s the final player they do.