Should Teacher Tenure Be Abolished?

[CONAN]

Pfff. Your evidence is anecdotal and therefore not germane to this thread, sir. You have done thousands of times less than 0.0000000001% of all teaching. You're working from far too limited a sample size in order to accurately comment on this topic.

I haven't said anything anectdotal but feel free to get defensive and claim that because I owned you earlier, Nancy. Whatever floats your boat.

How bout you geniuses go speak with district personnel/principals on this subject and ask them about policy? Not stories or experiences. I'm talking about written policy.

Also feel free to look up court cases in which teachers got sued over grades. Look into how districts handle that and what the teacher did.

How bout you guys do that instead of this whinefest sensationalism that nobody intelligent is going to buy?

Lemme know, Ladies.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

I haven't said anything anectdotal but feel free to get defensive and claim that because I owned you earlier, Nancy. Whatever floats your boat.

How bout you geniuses go speak with district personnel/principals on this subject and ask them about policy? Not stories or experiences. I'm talking about written policy.

Also feel free to look up court cases in which teachers got sued over grades. Look into how districts handle that and what the teacher did.

How bout you guys do that instead of this whinefest sensationalism that nobody intelligent is going to buy?

Lemme know, Ladies.

Policy is great genius when the district and administrators stick to it. This is not me being worried about myself. This is me knowing how administrators oftentimes don't have the backbone to do what's right and stick to policy for fear of losing their own job or such. In other words, parents will complain, they'll break down and make an executive decision to raise the grade, and the parents would get the tax break which is all they were really worried about anyway. If you don't think parents will abuse the ability to do that, you're completely naive. And trust me, in my district, you can unfortunately take policy and throw it out the window so things like this would happen all the time.

We had an 8th grader (a big kid too, probably about 6'0", 200+ and I think gang affiliated) grab a female teacher and pull her across a desk. What happened? He didn't even get suspended for a day. Why? Because this is how my district and its administrators oftentimes handles things.

Obviously teachers could file a grievance in this case or if their grades are altered but oftentimes it leads to more trouble and harm than good. Ya know, unless you live in a Utopia.

 

[moevillini]

...free to get defensive and claim that because I owned you earlier, Nancy...

...do that instead of this whinefest sensationalism that nobody intelligent is going to buy?

Lemme know, Ladies.

Nancy???
Ladies???

Seriously Conan, what's this? You seem to be using these terms as an insult of some sort - and I'd like to know why you think this is insulting?


I'm really curious.



at any rate, here's a link to an article that discusses and evaluates the concept of "bribing" students for improved academic and/or behavioral objectives

https://www.publicschoolreview.com/articles/276

Published November 24, 2010 - Written by Grace Chen

Students are often given rewards by parents when they bring home a good report card. High school students who excel in academics, sports or other activities are often given monetary incentives to go to particular colleges in the form of scholarships. Why not pay students in primary and secondary schools for making the grade as well?

Studies have recently been conducted to determine whether monetary rewards by the school district would motivate at-risk students to achieve better in school. While results of these studies have been mixed, the debate over the idea is unmistakable. Although some believe that any method of enticing kids to perform well in school is fair game, others see paying cash for grades as an unnecessary way to encourage students to do what they should already be achieving. Who's right? Let's take a look at both sides of the debate to see....

at any rate, it seems that where this is done, it's based upon objectives that are less dependent on a grade from a specific teacher, such as scores on achievement tests, attendance and tardiness, etc.

 

[CONAN]

Policy is great genius when the district and administrators stick to it. This is not me being worried about myself. This is me knowing how administrators oftentimes don't have the backbone to do what's right and stick to policy for fear of losing their own job or such. In other words, parents will complain, they'll break down and make an executive decision to raise the grade, and the parents would get the tax break which is all they were really worried about anyway. If you don't think parents will abuse the ability to do that, you're completely naive. And trust me, in my district, you can unfortunately take policy and throw it out the window so things like this would happen all the time.

We had an 8th grader (a big kid too, probably about 6'0", 200+ and I think gang affiliated) grab a female teacher and pull her across a desk. What happened? He didn't even get suspended for a day. Why? Because this is how my district and its administrators oftentimes handles things.

Obviously teachers could file a grievance in this case or if their grades are altered but oftentimes it leads to more trouble and harm than good. Ya know, unless you live in a Utopia.

Every parent sucks and every administrator is incompetent. I get it.

 

[CONAN]

Nancy???
Ladies???

Seriously Conan, what's this? You seem to be using these terms as an insult of some sort - and I'd like to know why you think this is insulting?


I'm really curious.



at any rate, here's a link to an article that discusses and evaluates the concept of "bribing" students for improved academic and/or behavioral objectives

https://www.publicschoolreview.com/articles/276




at any rate, it seems that where this is done, it's based upon objectives that are less dependent on a grade from a specific teacher, such as scores on achievement tests, attendance and tardiness, etc.

There are certainly many avenues to take here. Like students, parents are going to be motivated by different means. Find those means and use them. Again, as with students, the idea being to go from extrinsic to instrinsic motivation. A concept know as fading.

Sometimes you have to take baby steps. Sometimes you have to crawl before you can walk and then run. Achieving effective education isn't so black and white. There are many shades of grey you have to work through to get to the end goal.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Every parent sucks and every administrator is incompetent. I get it.

No, you obviously don't.

 

[CONAN]

No, you obviously don't.

Yes I do. All too well. You think my idea sucks and have plenty of anectdotal evidence to back it up to go along with your blathering rants sprinkled with sensationalism and pessimism. You've done it before, you're doing it now, and good money says you'll do it again. You're transparent and repetitive.

Please prove me wrong.

 

[franklin]

How bout you guys do that instead of this whinefest sensationalism that nobody intelligent is going to buy?

Lemme know, Ladies.

Did someone say winefest and Ladies?

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Yes I do. All too well. You think my idea sucks and have plenty of anectdotal evidence to back it up to go along with your blathering rants sprinkled with sensationalism and pessimism. You've done it before, you're doing it now, and good money says you'll do it again. You're transparent and repetitive.

Please prove me wrong.

Irony at its finest coming from the poster boy for blowhards and speaking in absolutes.

Listen, if you read my posts, I never totally criticized the idea. I questioned it because of what I believe would likely happen. What you call sensationalism and pessimism I call foresight and reality. We don't live in a Utopia, remember.

 

[LogGrad98]

Yeah we live in UTAHpia.

 

[CONAN]

Listen, if you read my posts, I never totally criticized the idea. I questioned it because of what I believe would likely happen.

And that's all well and good. I haven't given it much thought at all and it certainly needs ironing out and maybe it doesn't work at all. But you're being a real debbie downer and claiming what you believe will likely happen is what will happen when in fact you have no idea. Everything you claim I am doing you are guilty of yourself. At the least we have given a few links about research with some reward-based programs.

What I find interesting is things that I see as a positive you see as a negative like parents calling to whine. I see that as an opportunity to open some dialogue. You see it like it's the plague and will bring the whole system crashing down.

Parents already call in and cry about their kids. Districts, principals, and teachers already have to deal with that. It's not like this would create some new problems.

Sure we don't live in Utopia but I'm beginning to think you live in anti-Utopia. You like your job, right?