Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
And you think the answer to that is a guy who shot 2 fewer shots per 36 minutes at a much worse shooting percentage? You're of the rotating door philosophy when it comes to players, right?
Sixers ready to part ways with Igoudala.
- Thread starter Beantown
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And you think the answer to that is a guy who shot 2 fewer shots per 36 minutes at a much worse shooting percentage? You're of the rotating door philosophy when it comes to players, right?
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
And don't even get started on the "chucker" nonsense. When Miles was playing the same role as Rush played this year, he was a slightly better version of Brandon Rush. You ask Rush to play the same role C.J. played this past year and you're going to get the same, or worse, player.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
I'd much rather have perceived chuckers who have actual talent and reign them in than guys who don't have a lot of talent and turn them into scorers.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Billy, I learn as much from you as any other poster on this site, but I think you are undervaluing Hibbert. That's a 24yr old improving Center that stands 7'2" who can be productive without being the blackhole of the offensive scheme. Oh yeah, he's also a lot cheaper than Al.
He's not athletic, but neither is Al.
I wouldn't do the trade as suggested, i.e. Al + CJ for Hibbert + Rush + Posey. But, if I could get Indy's first next year plus a future 2nd then I'd think really hard about it.
Next year, if we had GS's first, Indy's first, our first, and could then turn Memo's and Posey's expiring into late firsts, then we could combine picks to move up in what will be one of the best drafts ever. It's possible that this proposed trade could net us another starter (or star?).
He's not athletic, but neither is Al.
I wouldn't do the trade as suggested, i.e. Al + CJ for Hibbert + Rush + Posey. But, if I could get Indy's first next year plus a future 2nd then I'd think really hard about it.
Next year, if we had GS's first, Indy's first, our first, and could then turn Memo's and Posey's expiring into late firsts, then we could combine picks to move up in what will be one of the best drafts ever. It's possible that this proposed trade could net us another starter (or star?).
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
I don't think Hibbert's a bad player. I think he'll be a solid center. I just don't think he has a high ceiling. He's great if you can pair him with a 4 who can shoulder the scoring load in the paint. I haven't seen him enough to really have an opinion on his defense, but I know he isn't very athletic. And I don't see him ever turning into a guy you feed in the post. I wouldn't be upset to get him, but I would be if we traded Al for him. Al is much more skilled than he is.
I'd have to think long and hard about Millsap plus the 6th pick for Hibbert plus Jones & maybe there pick. Indy might do it, justfor Millsap? Then they can use there pick on a euro big, Maybe Kanter falls to them at 6? Utah would get the true big man, they have needed for years. To play along side (heres the best part) Jefferson/Favors. Now thats an amazing big man rotation! Plus Jones would be a decent cheap piece off the bench. And if we got there pick it, maybe we could package the 12 with there pick and try and move up get Knight?
NAOS
Well-Known Member
naw, #6, even in this draft, has all-star potential.
We'll just have to disagree on some of these points. I don't know that you can "reign in" veterans that have never learned to play team ball and have had time to figure it out.
Hibbert can put up shots, and he certainly doesn't score as well as Jefferson, but he's a good passer and he doesn't demand possessions. I don't at all believe that a steady diet of low-post plays is the key to a championship anymore, but I do believe you need at least one big that can handle himself down low to exploit a matchup but mostly can have an offense run through him (not AS him). I'm not advocating dumping Al to get Hibbert because I think Hibbert will score more points, I advocate it because I just don't see Al in the team's future and Hibbert is a smarter, bigger, more versatile player. Pairing him with Favors makes a lot more sense to me since Hibbert made his name playing out of the high-post in a Princeton offense and I think it would give Favors better scoring opportunities. Besides all of that, Hibbert is on a rookie deal and it's more believable he can grow as a player still (since he's still relatively A LOT less experienced).
As far as Miles goes, he's almost always played like he was supposed to be the guy. Since the '07-'08 season where he was efficient in spot minutes (and got a contract because of it), his percentages from the field have gone down every single year while his field goals attempted (both absolute and rate) have gone up every single year. That's not a trend going in the right direction, and bad habits are harder to correct the further you get. My point is it's irrelevant if the Jazz are asking him to chuck or not, that's just how he plays. I see no chance that changes, though there is a small chance he actually starts making shots. I'm not and wouldn't be asking Brandon Rush to take >18 shots per 40 minutes, I'm asking him to take shots where he's open (enough), where the ball has gone through a few people's hands in a set, and be mindful of if his shots are going in or not. Miles tries to shoot his way out of a slump, and once every 5 games, he is insanely productive and efficient enough to look like a halfway competent player.
I'm not asking these guys to put up a combined 35 shots. That's precisely my point. I want smart players. I'm confident we can find our offensive beasts of burden through the draft (and I think we may have already found one or two of them).
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Those are all fair points on Miles and Jefferson so long as you consider them finished products. As to Jefferson, he had 2 straight months of averaging 24 and 11 while shooting about 54%. There might be 10 guys in the whole league who can do that. My guess is KOC is going to roll the dice that Second Half Al is closer to the guy he's capable of becoming. Miles is obviously more of an enigma. The half full assessment is he showed an ability to drive and create his own shot last year. And a lot of 'chuckers' eventually shed that tag with experience, or just get better at scoring. Jamal Crawford is a slightly similar example. But I have no idea what KOC thinks about Miles.
My basic thing is this: Whether a team keeps, trades, or lets a player go is primarily about production. But production isn't a fixed stat. It's a function of talent. The more talent a player is perceived to have, the more patience a team will exhibit to see if he can translate that talent into production. I'd be patient with Al. His array of post moves and the two months he put together once he got comfy is all I need to see to bring him back. I'm sure Miles is closer to the breaking point on the patience meter.
As for Rush, there isn't anything to be patient about. He can't drive or create shots for himself, he doesn't get any assists, and he's been a starter for years. He won't help any team except as a backup. In fact, I'd only give him 50/50 odds of having his 4 million dollar RFA option picked up. As for Hibbert, I think you would be crying to have Al back after about 10 games. But he's absolutely a decent player that can help on the right team.
My basic thing is this: Whether a team keeps, trades, or lets a player go is primarily about production. But production isn't a fixed stat. It's a function of talent. The more talent a player is perceived to have, the more patience a team will exhibit to see if he can translate that talent into production. I'd be patient with Al. His array of post moves and the two months he put together once he got comfy is all I need to see to bring him back. I'm sure Miles is closer to the breaking point on the patience meter.
As for Rush, there isn't anything to be patient about. He can't drive or create shots for himself, he doesn't get any assists, and he's been a starter for years. He won't help any team except as a backup. In fact, I'd only give him 50/50 odds of having his 4 million dollar RFA option picked up. As for Hibbert, I think you would be crying to have Al back after about 10 games. But he's absolutely a decent player that can help on the right team.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
He was hurt. He's got a knee issue. Apparently it's also a chronic condition so that's more worrisome than his ability given his contract.