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Small Pieces of KOC's rebuilding plan revealed

mellow

mellow

Well-Known Member
Check out this short interview from the combine.

KOC says Jazz are not rebuilding they are remodling. 'We are going to have success with Al, Mislap, and Harris.' The young guys can learn under them, because you don't learn anything from losing.

This seems like fence sitting to me. Either you are competing to win or you are rebuilding. Being mediocre can be self-sustaining--think Milwaukee or Indiana. Some years they are 8th seeds, some years they draft 1oth and they've been this way for years.

I also don't like the idea of rookies learning how to be winners from Al Jefferson and Devin Harris.

Also, noteworthy: Last week I went to Fanz store to buy a T-shirt for the draft party. I pointed at the jerseys and asked the guy when the Raja and Ak jerseys would go on sale.

He said they probably wouldn't since the store just got a shipment of newly printed AK jerseys. He did reveal that KOC had not warned the stores before trading Deron. Deron was a snap decision thing, They've had 7 years to decide on AK, and it looks like he is going to be around for a while.
 
How has the model of trading away legitimate franchise players in favor of non-impact, non-winning, fringe all-star players and sticking with them work out? If we're waiting on the assets we've been given to turn into something, Harris is going to be on the wrong side of 30, playing a game that relies on speed. Sounds water-tight. Better go and re-sign the biggest headache this franchise has ever had to deal with as well. Look out, league.
 
also, i would add that what KOC says publicly should always be viewed as simiply the socially right thing to say. He has never and will never divulge a strategy in an interview. it makes perfect sense to say that AJ, Slap, and Harris are "da men." No one on the team is offended by that statement.

while it makes good fan-fodder to hear from folks who are more open-opinion types, divulging doesn't remotely translate to better success as VP of basketball ops.
 
Also, I don't know if any of that means anything. I don't think "rebuild" is in this organization's vocabulary, so that's worth thinking about.

Also, learning how to win from Harris and JEFFERSON (of all people) is like asking a blind person to teach your kid how to ride a bike.

On that note, that's another reason I would prefer to keep Millsap.
 
All that means is he wants to keep some veterans around so the rookies aren't thrust into the starting lineup right away. Honestly, I think it makes sense.
 
Honestly, I think the best way to develop young players is to let them play. Durant played for TERRIBLE versions of the Sonics/Thunder his first few years and that didn't limit his/or his teams development. If you think Favors is your guy you need to play him. If the Jazz end up drafting a PG, they need to trade Devin Harris.

They sat Deron behind Milt Palacio and Keith McLeod (who weren't even CLOSE as good as Devin Harris) for half of a season and it truly cost us a trip to the playoffs that year.
 
MrBlue said:
Honestly, I think the best way to develop young players is to let them play. Durant played for TERRIBLE versions of the Sonics/Thunder his first few years and that didn't limit his/or his teams development. If you think Favors is your guy you need to play him. If the Jazz end up drafting a PG, they need to trade Devin Harris.

They sat Deron behind Milt Palacio and Keith McLeod (who weren't even CLOSE as good as Devin Harris) for half of a season and it truly cost us a trip to the playoffs that year.
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And may have sewed seeds of deserved ill-will that bloomed enough to implode the organization as it was known...
 
that means we are gonna be a playoff team for the next 5 yrs as we were in the last 5. It sucks that jefferson and harris gonna be the leaders to further teach rookies. We have 2 young players, 3rd pick and still KOC cant dare to use the word Rebuilding. it sucks
 
Sounds like KOC may go Euro and stash someone overseas, possibly trading down. There just aren't enough minutes if you go big (BPA Kanter) and have to split minutes between Jefferson, Millsap, Favors, and Okur.
Another words, he is in no hurry to ruffle any more feathers after the Deron shakeup.
 
MrBlue said:
Honestly, I think the best way to develop young players is to let them play. Durant played for TERRIBLE versions of the Sonics/Thunder his first few years and that didn't limit his/or his teams development. If you think Favors is your guy you need to play him. If the Jazz end up drafting a PG, they need to trade Devin Harris.

They sat Deron behind Milt Palacio and Keith McLeod (who weren't even CLOSE as good as Devin Harris) for half of a season and it truly cost us a trip to the playoffs that year.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he is Durant,not comparable to other players. He was going to be great no matter what.
 
That's not what I meant. My point is that young players arent necessarily going to be RUINED losing for the first couple years of their careers. As a Jazz fan I would be okay losing for a few years to have a strong team for 10 years. I would rather not wallow in being okay not great for a few years and THEN having inexperienced players carrying the team.
 
MrBlue said:
Honestly, I think the best way to develop young players is to let them play. Durant played for TERRIBLE versions of the Sonics/Thunder his first few years and that didn't limit his/or his teams development. If you think Favors is your guy you need to play him. If the Jazz end up drafting a PG, they need to trade Devin Harris.

They sat Deron behind Milt Palacio and Keith McLeod (who weren't even CLOSE as good as Devin Harris) for half of a season and it truly cost us a trip to the playoffs that year.
Click to expand...

Winning games always takes precedence. Yeah, Seattle left Durant on the floor to "learn" because they didn't have anybody better on the entire team unless you count Lewis, and he wasn't competing with Lewis for minutes. John Wall is going to obviously play 35 minutes because Washington has no one remotely better. The OKC story of starting 3-30 (or whatever) sounds nice, but they didn't have a lot of alternatives to Durant/Westbrook/Green/whoever.

I love Favors potential as much as anyone, but at his current skill level he's not better to have on the court than Millsap or Al. But you can't just leave him out there if you're trying to win unless the playoffs are already out of reach.
 
MrBlue said:
That's not what I meant. My point is that young players arent necessarily going to be RUINED losing for the first couple years of their careers. As a Jazz fan I would be okay losing for a few years to have a strong team for 10 years. I would rather not wallow in being okay not great for a few years and THEN having inexperienced players carrying the team.
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iawtp
 
What KOC said makes perfect sense, but it all goes back to how you define a rebuilding team. True rebuilding teams have A) little actual talent and B) albatross contracts. They're just trying to dump players and build a brand new foundation. We have talented players that could be pieces on contenders.

In the short term, we need to get back to the playoffs while we add young talent from the trades (or even established talent in other trades.) In the longterm, we're figuring out which of the guys we're going to keep or deal. What we're not doing is dealing every veteran we have to start over. That's retooling to me, but if it feels better to call it rebuilding call it that.
 
Dwill_PwnasaurasRex said:
Yeah, he is Durant,not comparable to other players. He was going to be great no matter what.
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I complete agree that Durant was and is special. But if you listen to those draft interviews on DX, too many of those kids think theier game is like Carmelo, or Pierce or Chris Paul, or tony Allen but a better shooter, or Garnett, or Rose, or Wade. And there in is Ty Corbins dillema. If he benches the vet, the vet becomes a problem. If he keeps a rookie on the bench the rookie grows resentful of a coach and organization that is 'keeping him down' or holding him back.

None of the gaurds would say : " I see myself as an Earl Watson type player who can spell the starting point guard for 12 to 18 minutes a night for two years."

Enes Kanter won't up and say "Gosh I have not played in two years and I wasn't that skilled to begin with. I see myself learning how to play the professional game by playing like Francisco Elson. I will b e happy with 5 minutes a night as the 4the big man. I will cheer on my teamates while I secretly wish for them to get hurt so I can play 15 minutes."
 
billyshelby said:
Winning games always takes precedence. Yeah, Seattle left Durant on the floor to "learn" because they didn't have anybody better on the entire team unless you count Lewis, and he wasn't competing with Lewis for minutes. John Wall is going to obviously play 35 minutes because Washington has no one remotely better. The OKC story of starting 3-30 (or whatever) sounds nice, but they didn't have a lot of alternatives to Durant/Westbrook/Green/whoever.

I love Favors potential as much as anyone, but at his current skill level he's not better to have on the court than Millsap or Al. But you can't just leave him out there if you're trying to win unless the playoffs are already out of reach.
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But where are you going with Devin Harris and Al Jefferson? Perhaps one of the PG's available to the Jazz will be better for the team. I think that having Jefferson is going to hinder the development of Derrick Favors to some degree.

You say that these young guys played because there was no one better ahead of them, but those teams got rid of the guys that would have taken minutes from them (Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Gilbert Arenas). How much worse would the Jazz be by having say Kyrie, Knight, or Walker play instead of Devin Harris?

I hate that KOC tries to say we are not rebuilding. You traded the best player the Jazz have had in the past decade for draft picks. That sounds like rebuilding to me. If you're going to rebuild, then REBUILD. Get rid of the veterans that demand time/the ball to make room for guys to develop which is exactly what OKC did. Hayward and Favors are a nice start. A few more young pieces and we are there.
 
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