Small Pieces of KOC's rebuilding plan revealed

[Jazz4ever]

Sounds like KOC may go Euro and stash someone overseas, possibly trading down. There just aren't enough minutes if you go big (BPA Kanter) and have to split minutes between Jefferson, Millsap, Favors, and Okur.
Another words, he is in no hurry to ruffle any more feathers after the Deron shakeup.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Honestly, I think the best way to develop young players is to let them play. Durant played for TERRIBLE versions of the Sonics/Thunder his first few years and that didn't limit his/or his teams development. If you think Favors is your guy you need to play him. If the Jazz end up drafting a PG, they need to trade Devin Harris.

They sat Deron behind Milt Palacio and Keith McLeod (who weren't even CLOSE as good as Devin Harris) for half of a season and it truly cost us a trip to the playoffs that year.

Yeah, he is Durant,not comparable to other players. He was going to be great no matter what.

 

[MrBlue]

That's not what I meant. My point is that young players arent necessarily going to be RUINED losing for the first couple years of their careers. As a Jazz fan I would be okay losing for a few years to have a strong team for 10 years. I would rather not wallow in being okay not great for a few years and THEN having inexperienced players carrying the team.

 

[billyshelby]

Honestly, I think the best way to develop young players is to let them play. Durant played for TERRIBLE versions of the Sonics/Thunder his first few years and that didn't limit his/or his teams development. If you think Favors is your guy you need to play him. If the Jazz end up drafting a PG, they need to trade Devin Harris.

They sat Deron behind Milt Palacio and Keith McLeod (who weren't even CLOSE as good as Devin Harris) for half of a season and it truly cost us a trip to the playoffs that year.

Winning games always takes precedence. Yeah, Seattle left Durant on the floor to "learn" because they didn't have anybody better on the entire team unless you count Lewis, and he wasn't competing with Lewis for minutes. John Wall is going to obviously play 35 minutes because Washington has no one remotely better. The OKC story of starting 3-30 (or whatever) sounds nice, but they didn't have a lot of alternatives to Durant/Westbrook/Green/whoever.

I love Favors potential as much as anyone, but at his current skill level he's not better to have on the court than Millsap or Al. But you can't just leave him out there if you're trying to win unless the playoffs are already out of reach.

 

[LogGrad98]

That's not what I meant. My point is that young players arent necessarily going to be RUINED losing for the first couple years of their careers. As a Jazz fan I would be okay losing for a few years to have a strong team for 10 years. I would rather not wallow in being okay not great for a few years and THEN having inexperienced players carrying the team.

iawtp

 

[billyshelby]

What KOC said makes perfect sense, but it all goes back to how you define a rebuilding team. True rebuilding teams have A) little actual talent and B) albatross contracts. They're just trying to dump players and build a brand new foundation. We have talented players that could be pieces on contenders.

In the short term, we need to get back to the playoffs while we add young talent from the trades (or even established talent in other trades.) In the longterm, we're figuring out which of the guys we're going to keep or deal. What we're not doing is dealing every veteran we have to start over. That's retooling to me, but if it feels better to call it rebuilding call it that.

 

[mellow]

Yeah, he is Durant,not comparable to other players. He was going to be great no matter what.

I complete agree that Durant was and is special. But if you listen to those draft interviews on DX, too many of those kids think theier game is like Carmelo, or Pierce or Chris Paul, or tony Allen but a better shooter, or Garnett, or Rose, or Wade. And there in is Ty Corbins dillema. If he benches the vet, the vet becomes a problem. If he keeps a rookie on the bench the rookie grows resentful of a coach and organization that is 'keeping him down' or holding him back.

None of the gaurds would say : " I see myself as an Earl Watson type player who can spell the starting point guard for 12 to 18 minutes a night for two years."

Enes Kanter won't up and say "Gosh I have not played in two years and I wasn't that skilled to begin with. I see myself learning how to play the professional game by playing like Francisco Elson. I will b e happy with 5 minutes a night as the 4the big man. I will cheer on my teamates while I secretly wish for them to get hurt so I can play 15 minutes."

 

[MrBlue]

Winning games always takes precedence. Yeah, Seattle left Durant on the floor to "learn" because they didn't have anybody better on the entire team unless you count Lewis, and he wasn't competing with Lewis for minutes. John Wall is going to obviously play 35 minutes because Washington has no one remotely better. The OKC story of starting 3-30 (or whatever) sounds nice, but they didn't have a lot of alternatives to Durant/Westbrook/Green/whoever.

I love Favors potential as much as anyone, but at his current skill level he's not better to have on the court than Millsap or Al. But you can't just leave him out there if you're trying to win unless the playoffs are already out of reach.

But where are you going with Devin Harris and Al Jefferson? Perhaps one of the PG's available to the Jazz will be better for the team. I think that having Jefferson is going to hinder the development of Derrick Favors to some degree.

You say that these young guys played because there was no one better ahead of them, but those teams got rid of the guys that would have taken minutes from them (Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Gilbert Arenas). How much worse would the Jazz be by having say Kyrie, Knight, or Walker play instead of Devin Harris?

I hate that KOC tries to say we are not rebuilding. You traded the best player the Jazz have had in the past decade for draft picks. That sounds like rebuilding to me. If you're going to rebuild, then REBUILD. Get rid of the veterans that demand time/the ball to make room for guys to develop which is exactly what OKC did. Hayward and Favors are a nice start. A few more young pieces and we are there.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I think rebuilding means you're going to tear something down and completely redo it. That part is virtually done. The Jazz have a foundation in place: a young 4/5 rotation of Favors, Jefferson and Millsap; a SG (or SF) in Hayward. Harris is signed for another couple of years. What the Jazz needs is another starting wing and a young PG to develop. Another solid big wouldn't hurt, either. Adding three players and maybe signing a veteran backup is not rebuilding. And maybe "remodeling" means with all the youth, the Jazz will look to play more up tempo.

 

[billyshelby]

But where are you going with Devin Harris and Al Jefferson? Perhaps one of the PG's available to the Jazz will be better for the team. I think that having Jefferson is going to hinder the development of Derrick Favors to some degree.

You say that these young guys played because there was no one better ahead of them, but those teams got rid of the guys that would have taken minutes from them (Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Gilbert Arenas). How much worse would the Jazz be by having say Kyrie, Knight, or Walker play instead of Devin Harris?

I hate that KOC tries to say we are not rebuilding. You traded the best player the Jazz have had in the past decade for draft picks. That sounds like rebuilding to me. If you're going to rebuild, then REBUILD. Get rid of the veterans that demand time/the ball to make room for guys to develop which is exactly what OKC did. Hayward and Favors are a nice start. A few more young pieces and we are there.

Where are we going with Al/Devin? Don't know. The point is they already are good NBA players. We need to see them play to figure out how much they figure into the future. As for Favors, what I saw of him last year is he's absolutely not ready to be a 30 plus starter. His offensive game is so raw. But he'll be 20. If he only got 25 minutes a game next year, that's plenty for him to show he should get 30. If he deserves 30 from the jump, he'll get it.

How much worse would the Jazz be playing Kyrie, Knight, Walker over Harris? 99% chance A LOT. John Wall didn't set the world on fire last year. PG is absolutely the toughest position to transition into the pros. Yeah, there's a small chance they'll come in awesome. But the overwhelming odds are they won't.

OKC 'totally rebuilt' because they HAD to. They started with absolutely nothing. They got Durant (and Green), added Westbrook, added Harden. But they had absolutely NOTHING behind those guys. If they had the guys we had, they wouldn't have rebuilt the way they did. Alternatively, the list of teams trying to rebuild through superstar draft picks like they did is long and hasn't gone well -- Clippers, Detroit, Toronto, Sacto, GS, and on and on.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I watched the entire interview and mellow has that one quote blown completely out of proportion. All through the interview KOC talks about the need for patience, that the Jazz have a lot of young players. He said whoever the Jazz pick may not be able to contribute much right away. Then Aldridge brings up the term "rebuilding" and KOC responds appropriately. What do we want him to say, that he wants the team to lose 60 games? Basically the Jazz have the same team that started 27-13, except for Harris replacing Deron. The depth is better with Favors, an improved Hayward and a top 3 rookie. No, the Jazz won't duplicate that great start, but I'd be disappointed if they aren't in the 40-win range (if the NBA goes 82 games).

 

[freakazoid]

As a Jazz fan I would be okay losing for a few years to have a strong team for 10 years.

The problem with this is that a losing mentality can be hard to overcome once it becomes habit. Not only that, but I doubt very much that Jazz fans would accept losing for two years, regardless of the situation. Half this board would want to trade everybody and fire Corbin about half way through the first season.