Snyder to step down - Woj

[stitches]

I totally agree with that too. The best for him is to take one year off and move to Spurs. Next year may be now or never for the Jazz .

It's never. This current one was the now or never season. This team is going nowhere unless our prima donna perimeter players decide to take some pride and accountability for their defensive effort and play. I kind of want to see them without Gobert behind them because then it really would be sink or swim... and it will be all out in the open for everybody to see over months and months of play, rather than them getting exposed for 2 weeks in the playoffs. They will have to either take some responsibility defensively or they will be the laughing stock of the NBA.

 

[LogGrad98]

It's never. This current one was the now or never season. This team is going nowhere unless our prima donna perimeter players decide to take some pride and accountability for their defensive effort and play. I kind of want to see them without Gobert behind them because then it really would be sink or swim... and it will be all out in the open for everybody to see over months and months of play, rather than them getting exposed for 2 weeks in the playoffs. They will have to either take some responsibility defensively or they will be the laughing stock of the NBA.

Hopefully a new coach will understand defensive philosophy enough to instill in the team the need to play defense at all positions, and not just teach "funnel to Rudy" as the sole defensive scheme and accept the constant lack of effort on the defensive end. Snyder's lack of defensive plan, and inability to inspire the team to actually play defense, was a major factor in our defensive lapses. We need a coach who has a better plan for defense, is better at adapting to the situations that arise, and can instill this in his team. That is a tall order given most of this team has had years of conditioning to simply not play defense, for which Mitchell is the poster child. He went from a phenom out of college known at least in part for his defensive intensity to a guy that literally steps out of the way of his man and lets him run to the rim completely untouched and then just runs the other way with nary a thought to the matter. The next coach needs to be able to change this in the entire team, or we need to trade away those who won't get on board. If we can't get this part sorted, it won't matter who the coach is or how many G-league rising stars we try to bring in, we won't get any further along in the playoffs. Especially if we opt to keep both Mitchell and Gobert, we will need a better defensive scheme to utilize them both to their fullest, and not just rely on the single generational defensive talent on our team to clean up everyone else's ****, since we really don't have the assets to fill in many gaps if we do keep them both.

 

[stitches]

Hopefully a new coach will understand defensive philosophy enough to instill in the team the need to play defense at all positions, and not just teach "funnel to Rudy" as the sole defensive scheme and accept the constant lack of effort on the defensive end. Snyder's lack of defensive plan, and inability to inspire the team to actually play defense, was a major factor in our defensive lapses. We need a coach who has a better plan for defense, is better at adapting to the situations that arise, and can instill this in his team. That is a tall order given most of this team has had years of conditioning to simply not play defense, for which Mitchell is the poster child. He went from a phenom out of college known at least in part for his defensive intensity to a guy that literally steps out of the way of his man and lets him run to the rim completely untouched and then just runs the other way with nary a thought to the matter. The next coach needs to be able to change this in the entire team, or we need to trade away those who won't get on board. If we can't get this part sorted, it won't matter who the coach is or how many G-league rising stars we try to bring in, we won't get any further along in the playoffs. Especially if we opt to keep both Mitchell and Gobert, we will need a better defensive scheme to utilize them both to their fullest, and not just rely on the single generational defensive talent on our team to clean up everyone else's ****, since we really don't have the assets to fill in many gaps if we do keep them both.

Agree the coach has to bear some blame for that. But it's not just on the coach. Those players need to have some pride and take some responsibility for their own play on the defensive end.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It's never. This current one was the now or never season. This team is going nowhere unless our prima donna perimeter players decide to take some pride and accountability for their defensive effort and play. I kind of want to see them without Gobert behind them because then it really would be sink or swim... and it will be all out in the open for everybody to see over months and months of play, rather than them getting exposed for 2 weeks in the playoffs. They will have to either take some responsibility defensively or they will be the laughing stock of the NBA.

I declared it before the season and said I'd really enjoy this season as the rebuild starts shortly after... then it was bad vibes all season and was just awful... sucks.

 

[homeytennis]

Here is my latest Best Buy moment and it really happened at a Best Buy: Yesterday I ran into a guy I know at Best Buy who had been a small college coach and he opined that Quin did not play to his player's strengths and after awhile it was driving the players crazy. it went to the complicated offense to not holding players accountable after they screwed up to allowing players at the end of the bench to rot. He said the scrubs can see the screw ups and they will get angry when mediocrity or poor play is rewarded. He said he lost a small college team or two by going what Quin did.

 

[Jazz Traveler]

Makes me feel sick to my stomach to think the Jazz brass want to ship Rudy out and won’t consider trading Mitchell. Clarkson is Mitchell lite, at a fraction of the cost, honestly believe he could match Mitchell’s production. Mitchell could net the Jazz some valuable rebuilding pieces, including draft picks, which we desperately need. After a playoffs where Mitchell was worse on defense than he was during the regular season, makes me want to sell. Give me group of scrappy players with heart to cheer for. This group was less than the sum of their parts.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

It's not hard to see what happened.

Quin was done with the Jazz. He saw his ceiling here and knew he'd never get out of the second round. Quin's a smart dude and remaining with the franchise would only prolong the inevitable, especially if they were going to blow it up in a couple years - if not sooner. Quin also was on borrowed time. If it was any other franchise besides Utah, he's likely fired for the quick exits the Jazz have experienced the last three years. He peaked in 2018 and has struggled attaining that level of success. If it didn't happen in year eight, it wasn't going to happen in year nine.

The fact is, by the end of Sloan's eighth season, he had already guided the Jazz to three trips to the Western Conference Finals, including a thrilling seven-game series where the Jazz lost a seventh-game heartbreaker in Seattle.

It was clear, after the 1996 season, Sloan's eighth (really seventh full season with the Jazz) that the franchise was trending up.

There is no clarity this year. Quin had stagnated and become a coach more known for his late-game, and overall series collapses.

The only thing saving him, again, was the fact he coached Utah. Not only are they loyal (maybe even to a fault), the national media looks at the results and thinks that this is literally the best the franchise can do. So, the fact Quin was able to have relatively solid regular season success and a couple seasons of making some marginal noise in the playoffs, it was an impressive run. To the national media, even getting Utah out of the first-round, or keeping them competitive in the first-round, was a monumental achievement and because of that, his stock grew more and more nationally - even if, locally, you could tell it was woefully over inflated.

I think Quin realized that. I think he realized there was nowhere to go but down. The franchise peaked and the next few years were going to undo the perception he had in the national media and likely could cost him a better gig in a better city, with an easier chance to grab better talent than in little ol' Utah.

He wants the Spurs job. He returns to Utah and next year is a ****-show, there's the possibility they aren't so sure to go with him anymore.

So, resign, sit a year out unscathed, have everyone singing your praises instead of looking at the faults (and there are many) so when Pop retires, you're the most attractive candidate.

After all, he took those lowly Jazz to the NBA's best record in 2021!

And sure - he blew a 3-1 series lead vs Denver the year prior, despite his team leading by 15 points late into the third quarter of a closeout game ... but it's Utah!

And yeah, his Jazz did **** all with that #1 seed in 2021, blowing a 2-0 series lead to a Clippers team without its best player ... but holy **** it's Utah.

And right, he failed to take advantage of Dallas being without its best player for the first four (or was it five?) games of their first-round series in 2022, and lost after leading 1-0 (including twice in Salt Lake City) but AGAIN, it's Utah. You can't expect anything better than that there.

Quin pulled the plug before his flaws ultimately wrecked his chances elsewhere.

I guess that's one thing he learned from his Mizzou days.

Good post. All of this is true. However, there is no Karl Malone or John Stockton on this Jazz team. Quin never had a roster to work with that could live up to people's expectations. I think Dennis Lindsey was hoping that Gobert would develop offensively more than he has. That was the only chance that this Jazz team would become a legit contender. Otherwise, getting to the 2nd round was really this team's ceiling due to the way the roster was constructed.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Here is my latest Best Buy moment and it really happened at a Best Buy: Yesterday I ran into a guy I know at Best Buy who had been a small college coach and he opined that Quin did not play to his player's strengths and after awhile it was driving the players crazy. it went to the complicated offense to not holding players accountable after they screwed up to allowing players at the end of the bench to rot. He said the scrubs can see the screw ups and they will get angry when mediocrity or poor play is rewarded. He said he lost a small college team or two by going what Quin did.

There were times when the Jazz looked like they were more concerned with running a system than just scoring the damn ball. And players like Royce and Trent Forrest would get minutes over more capable players because they were loyal to that system.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Makes me feel sick to my stomach to think the Jazz brass want to ship Rudy out and won’t consider trading Mitchell. Clarkson is Mitchell lite, at a fraction of the cost, honestly believe he could match Mitchell’s production. Mitchell could net the Jazz some valuable rebuilding pieces, including draft picks, which we desperately need. After a playoffs where Mitchell was worse on defense than he was during the regular season, makes me want to sell. Give me group of scrappy players with heart to cheer for. This group was less than the sum of their parts.

I think the Jazz are playing poker, or more specifically, Danny Ainge is. Danny knows perfectly well what Donovan Mitchell is. Danny has had guys like Kyrie, Kemba and Terry Rozier before. He knows what they're capable of and not capable of. But it would take a king's ransom to get the Jazz to move Donovan this off-season. Jazz are messaging all kinds of things to the market. It's just posturing.

Just two weeks ago, Spence Checketts reported that the expectation was that Quin, Rudy and Donovan would all be back next season. Quin's gone. The likelihood that Rudy gets traded is very high. Donovan isn't untouchable. If the Jazz can get a top-3 pick in this draft plus future draft capital for trading Donovan, then they have to think about it. It has nothing to do with how happy Donovan Mitchell is playing here. It has to do with the fact that the Jazz need to rebuild and an All Star-caliber rookie would be under team control for 8 years.

Dennis Lindsey bet the farm on Donovan, Mike and Rudy forming a contender. He lost the farm.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I mean, just look at all this trade value on full display...


View: https://twitter.com/JingIesss/status/1534191686313619456

 

[outerspacefan]

No coach, player, executive, owner, analyst, whatever, is so darn perfect and without stubborness or flat out flaws, so I do not understand or concur with the general tone of some critics that I found kind of excessive.
I really don't believe to switch or swap some minutes here or there on the borders would have made any difference.
I believe Coach took the team and the players as close as possible to the furthest they could go, and that he was very good for the franchise.
The same applies to players. None of them is or was a bad franchise guy. They did their best for the most part and fallen apart when it was obvious they were not enough.
Character flaws? Yes it might be, but none of them that detrimental as to be bad for the frenchise.
I accepted their limits long ago and still enjoyed them for the most part... even if a ended up bored to death sometimes.
It's time to build something else, and I understand all these posturing as Ferguson_M said. You do not build anything if you start announcing a firesale.

 

[homeytennis]

No coach, player, executive, owner, analyst, whatever, is so darn perfect and without stubborness or flat out flaws, so I do not understand or concur with the general tone of some critics that I found kind of excessive.
I really don't believe to switch or swap some minutes here or there on the borders would have made any difference.
I believe Coach took the team and the players as close as possible to the furthest they could go, and that he was very good for the franchise.
The same applies to players. None of them is or was a bad franchise guy. They did their best for the most part and fallen apart when it was obvious they were not enough.
Character flaws? Yes it might be, but none of them that detrimental as to be bad for the frenchise.
I accepted their limits long ago and still enjoyed them for the most part... even if a ended up bored to death sometimes.
It's time to build something else, and I understand all these posturing as Ferguson_M said. You do not build anything if you start announcing a firesale.

Bring on the next Jack Cooley and Bryce Cotton.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Here is my latest Best Buy moment and it really happened at a Best Buy: Yesterday I ran into a guy I know at Best Buy who had been a small college coach and he opined that Quin did not play to his player's strengths and after awhile it was driving the players crazy. it went to the complicated offense to not holding players accountable after they screwed up to allowing players at the end of the bench to rot. He said the scrubs can see the screw ups and they will get angry when mediocrity or poor play is rewarded. He said he lost a small college team or two by going what Quin did.

My best buy rumor... Was on a zoom with some guys that had wives that were in the same circle as Quin's wife. Few months before the season ended they said she was giving away a bunch of Jazz stuff and other items that raised an eyebrow... like stuff that indicated they'd be moving.

 

[stitches]

Here is my latest Best Buy moment and it really happened at a Best Buy: Yesterday I ran into a guy I know at Best Buy who had been a small college coach and he opined that Quin did not play to his player's strengths and after awhile it was driving the players crazy. it went to the complicated offense to not holding players accountable after they screwed up to allowing players at the end of the bench to rot. He said the scrubs can see the screw ups and they will get angry when mediocrity or poor play is rewarded. He said he lost a small college team or two by going what Quin did.

Is he available? I hear the Jazz need a coach who can use players to their strengths, not drive them crazy, not run too complicated of an offense and hold them accountablewhen they screw up?

 

[416Klawzz]

Bring on the next Jack Cooley and Bryce Cotton.

Sundiata Gaines that game winner was magical

 

[homeytennis]

Is he available? I hear the Jazz need a coach who can use players to their strengths, not drive them crazy, not run too complicated of an offense and hold them accountablewhen they screw up?

I think he would love to have the job.

 

[homeytennis]

Is he available? I hear the Jazz need a coach who can use players to their strengths, not drive them crazy, not run too complicated of an offense and hold them accountablewhen they screw up?

Another person I know said that a Stars player last year was complaining about the "weird" offense. The Stars player played four years of college basketball and his father is a former NBA player and current head coach in the GLeague. So it wasn't his first rodeo being exposed to the genius' offense just like Conley complained about it too.

 

[KqWIN]

Johnnie Bryant has little or no relationship with Danny Ainge. He was part of the prior regime. He also has very little actual coaching experience, though he's done 2 years as an associate under Thibodeau. When Ainge hired Brad Stevens, Stevens was at least regarded as one of the best young coaches coming up in the college ranks and was thought of as a potential NBA coach.

I'm really curious to see which direction this goes.

There's also another elephant in the living room here, which is the question of whether the Jazz are self-conscious enough to insist on hiring a black coach in order to look progressive or appeal to players. It seems as though the league and the media have made it a thing to keep count of how many coaches are black vs. white these days.

Come on….whenever this “hire the best candidate regardless of race” trope gets out there people want to associate everything someone has earned to their race. Johnnie Bryant has been a coach in this league for a long time, he has ties to Utah, oh and he happened to be the player specific coach for the guy we’re bending the entire franchise to. He is represented by the same agency to boot. And you know what…his race does allow him to bond with the majority of the NBA players because of their shared experience growing up in America as black men. The ability to relate to players is a skill and attribute like anything else. That is one of many attributes that makes Johnnie Bryant a very obvious candidate for this job.

It’s ridiculous to diminish someone’s accomplishment to “wokeness”. No one bats an eye when a bunch of white dudes get hired because they know other white dudes. The elephant in the room is certainly not Johnnie Bryant’s race.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Come on….whenever this “hire the best candidate regardless of race” trope gets out there people want to associate everything someone has earned to their race. Johnny Bryant has been a coach in this league for a long time, he has ties to Utah, oh and he happened to be the player specific coach for the guy we’re bending the entire franchise to. He is represented by the same agency to boot. And you know what…his race does allow him to bond with the majority of the NBA players because of their shared experience growing up in America as black men. The ability to relate to players is a skill and attribute like anything else. That is one of many attributes that makes Johnnie Bryant a very obvious candidate for this job.

It’s ridiculous to diminish someone’s accomplishment to “wokeness”. No one bats an eye when a bunch of white dudes get hired because they know other white dudes. The elephant in the room is certainly not Johnnie Bryant’s race.

In our particular market I think having a black head coach becomes slightly more important as well... not because of wokeness of course but a young black man might feel even more uncomfortable in Utah... having someone they relate to more closely could help that coach be very effective.

 

[KqWIN]

In our particular market I think having a black head coach becomes slightly more important as well... not because of wokeness of course but a young black man might feel even more uncomfortable in Utah... having someone they relate to more closely could help that coach be very effective.

I would agree, the more uncomfortable a person may feel, the more important is is to have structure around them that will make them comfortable. Johnnie Bryant is someone who has been in Utah for years and built strong relationship with all of his players, there's no doubt his shared experience with the majority of players and his experience living in UTA for so long is a huge point in his favor. The elephant in the room isn't that part of his resume....it's whether or not his relationship with Don and CAA is what gets him the job undeservingly. Quite frankly, Johnnie Bryant is a strong candidate regardless of his relationship with Don/CAA....I do think people are shortchanging his resume and credentials beyond those relationships. But it's fair to raise an eyebrow if he gets hired for that reason. "Wokeness" is so far removed from the situation.