In re Kandu, 315 B.R. 123, 137 (Bkrtcy. W.D. Wash 2004), information which you summarily picked up at wiki.
Sounds familiar.
Let's look at Kandu, eh? Of course the bankruptcy court in Kandu did not cite Baker as controlling in the facts before it, because it was not relevant. Baker was not a bankruptcy case, it merely held that a state's denial of a marriage license to a gay couple was not unconstitutional. Kandu made it's reasons for not "relying on" Baker clear: "The court instead believed Baker to only have precedential value when a same-sex couple challenged a state's decision not to issue a marriage license under its own state law."
...
Kandu's central argument was that homosexual couples enjoy a "fundamental right" to marry that is protected by due process...
So, Baker was not a controling case for Kandu because it did not involve the right to marry, and Kandu's lawyers based their argument in part on the right to marry. Do you ever read what you are writing?
Any other cases which you claim "deny" that Baker is a controlling precedent? I can cite you many cases which have acknowledged that it IS a controlling precedent, if you want to continue to pretend this issue is somehow in dispute.
I don't recall pretending anything is in dispute. I merely find your pretense at detailed knowledge of this topic amusing.
Craig K. Manscill mentioned two others (or maybe it was one other with two people).
And the question of whether or not you're familiar with the facts or the law, and are not convinced, is relevant---how? Have you even read his opinion?
My reading the opinion, sans legal training, means only that I would interpret it without the legal background necessary to correctly interpret it, much as you have been doing.
If so, you would KNOW what cases he ignored. Your failure to convince yourself, and to even make the slightest attempt to look at the facts, is TOTALLY irrelevant to your implied claim that the judge followed precedent.
Feel free to show the implication you claim I made,outside of your own dismay that I find you unconvincing and ill-informed to make such determinations.
Do you have ANY facts or law to suggest it is NOT precedent? Do you have ANY facts or law to suggest that Walker did NOT ignore these cases?
Not at all. My only question is why the Proposition 8 defendants did not bring up
Baker vs. Nelson in their briefs before the court. If the case is a well-established, controlling precedent as you indicate, that makes them extremely incompetent, don't you think?
Are you saying California voters do NOT have the right to have their votes counted and the result of their vote applied?
Do they have the right to vote to ban interracial marriage and have the results of their vote counted? If you say no, then we agree on this. They do not have the right to have the results of their vote applied on every issue.
If you want to limit this to specifically the question of gay marriage, that that's what the trial was about, was it not?
What argument? Tell me again, in what way does anything about Loving give Walker the right, as a trial judge, to overrule the Supreme Court?
I'm not convinced he did. I'll let the appellate court sort that out.
Yeah, it is gettin boring.
Feel free to cut back on the demagoguery, then.
Look, all I did was suggest that the Judge should have merely followed precedent and let the plaintiffs appeal to the Appellate Court. You seem to think this would be improper,
Where did I say that? Maybe I think either action could be a proper action. For all I know, Judge Walker did act improperly. I'm not storming around claiming any view on that is accurate.
Eric, if you're content to simply say: "Look, I don't pretend to understand the law, and I'm not going to try.
Actually, I'm saying that, sans going to law school and spending another three-five years in the field on Constitutional law, I won't have the background to properly Judge Walker's actions, and neither do you, so I won't pretend to say whether they were correct or incorrect, nor will I blandly accept your determination. There are plenty of much more experienced people on both sides of that debate. I'll let the appellate court sort that out, and probably SCOTUS afterward.
When it comes to whether I think homosexuals should have the right to marry, I feel much more comfortable in that discussion, because it concerns much more ordinary phenomena. I've been married. I've had extensive social interactions with gay men as individuals and as couples.
You want to say who has rights, and who doesn't. You want to claim that Walker did the right thing, legally and factually.
See, I only claim he did the right thing factually. I find his legal decision to be a natural consequence of the factual decision, but that does not make it proper.
What it might do, thought, it directly address the the rational review standard. All the court opinions you have been quoting have been saying, to my lay understanding, that they are presuming there is a rational reason behind the gay marriage bans. Whaever else Judge Walker's finding does, it seems to have put into the record that such a rational reason can no longer be presumed to exist. I don't know it that nullifies
Baker vs. Nelson as a precedent, or what it means for any of the other cases that relied on a rational review standard, because I don't know exactly how all that fits together. I'm just going to sit back and watch the show, legally. In 20 years, it will all be moot anyhow.