Sorry gun advocates, you'll just have to suck it up

[franklin]

well that would be hilarious, seeing as the argument to maintain gun access is always grouped with the notion of "we need to address systemic factors leading to gun violence!!"-- so this either means bigger government, or scapegoating black people.

That's not exactly true. In fact, this type of polarizing all-issues-or-none mentality is why those of us in the middle of most issues have no where to vote.

There is a strong argument being made that gun crime in the US is largely a product of southern hick mentality. Basically, a bunch of billy bad asses with pride to protect.



-----


You've asked for answers to the inner city plight of mainly African Americans. If anyone here really wants to find the answers they will find the leading minds in this area have no clue how to solve the problem. The only sure fire answer is J-O-B-S. I've read a lot of cliche's thrown around in this thread including the family unit, education, etc. None of those work AT ALL without jobs.

Those blaming the break up of the AA family unit are as misguided as they come. AA's had a higher % of traditional family units than Caucasians before the widespread loss of manufacturing jobs in large city centers, and with an inability to follow these jobs to the more rural, cheap land areas. This isn't anything that can be correlated or sourced with a study of course, but the circumstantial evidence is as sound of an argument in support as it gets.

If America wants to put a dent in violence in the USA we need to declare targeted 'war' on Detroit, Chicago, etc. Make jobs. Provide protection. Make more jobs.

 

[Gameface]

This needs clarification - there's way too many loop holes. Buying at gun shows, background checks don't look at mental illness, etc.

Go to a gun show and try to buy a gun through one of those loop holes and get back to me.

Not trying to be a jerk but that gun show loop hole is a myth.

 

[Gameface]

which is its own problem, because this would lead to a further stigmatization of mental illness-- which is essentially the leading factor of why people don't seek medical help even when they know that they suffer from a mental illness. Maybe instituting this would have negligible impacts-- maybe it would worsen it. You'd have to look at other nations with this sort of infrastructure to look at its consequences.

The better solution is better infrastructure for mental illness prevention and facilitation, as opposed for punishing those who have the courage to seek help.

All very nuanced, of course. But ya no Hack is right Dala is Daladumb.

What if a person needed an evaluation as part of the background check? They have to sit down and explain to a therapist why they are buying a gun.

 

[HighlandHomie]

It's actually been a good discussion.

I agree. I had to work the rest of the day since I started the thread and just caught up. I honestly am not a troll and don't think anything in the original post would infer I am. I get carried away with my interactions with DutchJazz because he's the scum of the earth but everything else I say is perfectly reasonable.

 

[gandalfe]

Neither one of them have nearly the border issues that America has. Horrible comparison.

The US/Canada border is the largest unsecured border in the world. WTF are you talking about?

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

Go to a gun show and try to buy a gun through one of those loop holes and get back to me.

Not trying to be a jerk but that gun show loop hole is a myth.

What? This varies from state to state, but last I checked most states don't require any kind of background check at gun shows. I'm kinda jumping into the middle of this, so maybe I'm missing something.

 

[gandalfe]

What? This varies from state to state, but last I checked most states don't require any kind of background check at gun shows. I'm kinda jumping into the middle of this, so maybe I'm missing something.

You are correct, Cappy.

"Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform background checks of buyers to verify that the buyer is not prohibited from possessing a firearm. Private sellers are also not required to record the sale or ask for identification. Federal law prohibits private individuals from selling a firearm to a resident of another state, or to someone they know, or have reason to believe, is prohibited from owning a firearm. As of August 2013, 33 states do not require background checks for sales of firearms by private individuals, while 17 states and Washington, D.C. do require background checks for some or all private firearm sales. This is in contrast to sales by gun stores and other Federal Firearms License holders, who are required by federal law to perform background checks of all buyers, and to record all sales."

I mean, seriously, people, this is basic research.

 

[Gameface]

What? This varies from state to state, but last I checked most states don't require any kind of background check at gun shows. I'm kinda jumping into the middle of this, so maybe I'm missing something.

Gun stores typically are the sellers at gun shows and they still have to do background checks. Sales from private individuals to private individuals do not require background checks. Go to a gun show and see how many sellers are private individuals.

 

[gandalfe]

Gun stores typically are the sellers at gun shows and that still have to do background checks. Sales from private individuals to private individuals do not require background checks. Go to a gun show and see how many sellers are private individuals.

If that number is greater than 0, then IT'S STILL A LOOPHOLE.

 

[Gameface]

If that number is greater than 0, then IT'S STILL A LOOPHOLE.

Well I have never seen a private seller. Booth fees are kind of high for someone looking to sell one or two of their guns. But again, anti gun folks looking at a huge problem and trying to solve the one in a million problem instead of going after the low hanging fruit.

 

[gandalfe]

Well I have never seen a private seller. Both fees are kind of high fir someone looking to sell one or two of their guns. But again, anti gun folks looking at a huge problem and trying to solve the one in a million problem instead of going after the low hanging fruit.

It is true that a gun show is not the most likely place for this kind of thing to happen. (Although I wonder how much time you have spent examining it.) Booth fees, etc... But I would not be at all shocked to find that a lot of people meet a seller there and conduct their business elsewhere.

But, yes, you're right, the gun show is not the biggest problem.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

Gun stores typically are the sellers at gun shows and they still have to do background checks. Sales from private individuals to private individuals do not require background checks. Go to a gun show and see how many sellers are private individuals.

I go to gun shows every year, and have been for 20 + years. Like I said, this varies from state to state. I don't know what it's like in Utah, but I do know that in Montana, pretty much anybody can buy pretty much anything they want without any check. My experience is that there are way more private sellers at gun shows than licensed dealers.