Supreme Court Justice Kennedy to Retire

[Zombie]

Show me where I denied that? The argument was that the allegation did no harm and that's ********. OF MOTHER****ING COURSE sexual assault is FAR worse *******, but to pretend that absolutely no harm is done by dragging someone's name through the mud is intellectually dishonest.

I really hope she testifies and that there is a full investigation. If the allegation is true he should be strung up. And as I have already stated she needs to have her story heard and taken seriously.

Afaiac there is enough doubt around the guy, and not just from this, that they really need to move on to another candidate.

Cool then, we agree. It's just a little off to me to see people (read: men) so ****ing concerned with false accusations when there's a far larger problem in our society of acusers not being believed than men's lives being ruined by false accusations. The vast majority of falsely accused men are exonerated, while the vast majority of actual sexual predators go free. And yet when it comes to discussions regarding Kavenaugh somehow this whole dynamic gets turned on its head.

 

[Deleted member 365]

A reputation takes a lifetime to build and a single publicized allegation to destroy. That's not nothing.

Even more reason to investigate. If someone was unfairly trying to destroy my reputation through false allegations I’d be screaming from the rooftops for an investigation that would exonerate me.

So why isn’t Kavanaugh doing that? Why doesn’t he want an investigation?

I have yet to see any republican address this issue. Yet they keep bringing it up that these women are lying and destroying his life.

 

[RandyForRubio]

Yeah, way to only engage in half of what I wrote. Again, we're not talking about throwing anyone in jail. We're talking about whether or not this particular guy should be sat for a lifetime appointment to our highest court. Let's say despite this he still gets sat, which at this point is still the most likely outcome, would you say at that point his life has been ruined?

As for who to believe, why are you so willing to believe him over Dr Ford? He has already shown that he is willing to lie in pursuit of this nomination, and like I said earlier, if this is true he has far more to gain from lying, than she stands to gain if it's false.

I have not stated that she is lying, or that he is innocent, or guilty yet. I don’t know enough.

Unlike some others, I’m just waiting to find out more. Can I still talk about the inconsistencies in the story? Of course I can. That’s reasonable to do, and it should be done.

But yeah, whether he gets confirmed or not, for the rest of his life he’s going to be Brett Kavanaugh, accused of sexual assault. Now if he’s guilty, that’s obviously more than fair. If he’s not, I would consider that pretty heinous. Every time somebody sees you, that’s what they’re thinking. Personally, yeah, that would wreck my life.

 

[Zombie]

There's a culture of abuse in this country where many survivors are victimized twice. Once by their abuser and a second time by those around them who belittle, dismiss and disbelieve them. This of course results in sexual abusers going free and more women being assaulted. And yet through all of this, anytime there's a high profile accusation of sexual misconduct we hear 'won't somebody please think of the men??'

 

[RJF]

There's a culture of abuse in this country where many survivors are victimized twice. Once by their abuser and a second time by those around them who belittle, dismiss and disbelieve them. This of course results in sexual abusers going free and more women being assaulted. And yet through all of this, anytime there's a high profile accusation of sexual misconduct we hear 'won't somebody please think of the men??'

I take it you’re in the camp that doesn’t care if a good man’s reputation is tarnished by false accusations if it means bringing down the patriarchy?

 

[Zombie]

I take it you’re in the camp that doesn’t care if a good man’s reputation is tarnished by false accusations if it means bringing down the patriarchy?

I'm actually in the camp that recognizes that, while false accusations are terrible, they pale in severity and occurence compared to actual sexual assault that goes unreported or is not believed.

 

[RandyForRubio]

There's a culture of abuse in this country where many survivors are victimized twice. Once by their abuser and a second time by those around them who belittle, dismiss and disbelieve them. This of course results in sexual abusers going free and more women being assaulted. And yet through all of this, anytime there's a high profile accusation of sexual misconduct we hear 'won't somebody please think of the men??'

Again, you’re wrong.

It’s not a “won’t somebody think of the men” issue. It’s an issue of “we must believe the accused is a filthy sex pervert even when there is no evidence.”

Not one witness that Judge has mentioned can corroborate the story, not even her lifelong friend. There were supposedly 5-6 people at this house party, and yet all of them say it wasn’t at their house, and it wasn’t at Judge’s house. I always want to believe the accuser, but there has to be some semblance of proof or evidence. In this case, there is absolutely none. Not one first hand witness. Not one.

But I’m not saying Kavanaugh is innocent either! I’m saying, let’s wait. Let’s let both of them testify. The people rushing the gun claiming they know...that’s the larger problem.

 

[Zombie]

Again, you’re wrong.

It’s not a “won’t somebody think of the men” issue. It’s an issue of “we must believe the accused is a filthy sex pervert even when there is no evidence.”

Not one witness that Judge has mentioned can corroborate the story, not even her lifelong friend. There were supposedly 5-6 people at this house party, and yet all of them say it wasn’t at their house, and it wasn’t at Judge’s house. I always want to believe the accuser, but there has to be some semblance of proof or evidence. In this case, there is absolutely none. Not one first hand witness. Not one.

But I’m not saying Kavanaugh is innocent either! I’m saying, let’s wait. Let’s let both of them testify. The people rushing the gun claiming they know...that’s the larger problem.

As you've no doubt noticed, no one here is calling for this guy to be strung up. We just want an investigation. And, yeah, actually there is a first hand witness, the woman who was assaulted. Anyway, we've gone the rounds regarding why Kavanaugh has less credibility, eg lying under oath. At this point it's obvious unless there's an actual photo or video of the assault occurring you right wingers are going to continue to pretend that this is all just so unfair. Even though all we are asking for is for these women to be taken seriously, and for this confirmation not to be rushed though for political reasons.

 

[Zombie]

I feel like this detail about the Martinez accusation is getting lost in the noise a bit. From the New Yorker magazine article:

The classmate said that he is “one-hundred-per-cent sure” that he was told at the time that Kavanaugh was the student who exposed himself to Ramirez. He independently recalled many of the same details offered by Ramirez, including that a male student had encouraged Kavanaugh as he exposed himself. The classmate, like Ramirez, recalled that the party took place in a common room on the first floor in Entryway B of Lawrance Hall, during their freshman year. “I’ve known this all along,” he said. “It’s been on my mind all these years when his name came up. It was a big deal.” The story stayed with him, he said, because it was disturbing and seemed outside the bounds of typically acceptable behavior, even during heavy drinking at parties on campus. The classmate said that he had been shocked, but not necessarily surprised, because the social group to which Kavanaugh belonged often drank to excess. He recalled Kavanaugh as “relatively shy” until he drank, at which point he said that Kavanaugh could become “aggressive and even belligerent.”

 

[RandyForRubio]

As you've no doubt noticed, no one here is calling for this guy to be strung up. We just want an investigation. And, yeah, actually there is a first hand witness, the woman who was assaulted. Anyway, we've gone the rounds regarding why Kavanaugh has less credibility, eg lying under oath. At this point it's obvious unless there's an actual photo or video of the assault occurring you right wingers are going to continue to pretend that this is all just so unfair. Even though all we are asking for is for these women to be taken seriously, and for this confirmation not to be rushed though for political reasons.

Who’s supposed to investigate it?

The FBI has said they’re not going to. They don’t want to. They don’t have to.

There is no proof. There is no evidence. 4 of the 5 first hand witnessed by Ford’s account have testified under the threat of perjury that they don’t recall the event, the party, and one said they’ve never met the accused. The only first hand who hasn’t testified under oath? The accuser.

The isn’t about being left wing or right wing. It’s the idea that accusations should have some credibility to them in order to be investigated.

You continually ignore that nobody, not even her friend, can or will corroborate her story. That doesn’t concern you? Like...doesn’t concern you at all? It concerns me! And luckily, I can say that I’ve never been sexually assaulted. It has happened to immediate family though. I’m not blind to the reality of what happens. But there needs to be some proof! Other credible accusers. Unfortunately, there is none of that. There’s nothing, but that still doesn’t bother you.

 

[Zombie]

Who’s supposed to investigate it?

The FBI has said they’re not going to. They don’t want to. They don’t have to.

There is no proof. There is no evidence. 4 of the 5 first hand witnessed by Ford’s account have testified under the threat of perjury that they don’t recall the event, the party, and one said they’ve never met the accused. The only first hand who hasn’t testified under oath? The accuser.

The isn’t about being left wing or right wing. It’s the idea that accusations should have some credibility to them in order to be investigated.

You continually ignore that nobody, not even her friend, can or will corroborate her story. That doesn’t concern you? Like...doesn’t concern you at all? It concerns me! And luckily, I can say that I’ve never been sexually assaulted. It has happened to immediate family though. I’m not blind to the reality of what happens. But there needs to be some proof! Other credible accusers. Unfortunately, there is none of that. There’s nothing, but that still doesn’t bother you.

The FBI can't investigate unless directed to reopen Kavanaugh's background check by the white house, which they can absolutely do.

The very nature of the crime means that the vast majority of sexual assaults take place without additional first hand witnesses.

Now, like I said I don't think he should be locked up, but her testimony in addition to the second accusation, which does include independently confirmed details, should be enough for us to say, yeah maybe this guy shouldn't get a lifetime appointment.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

In order for anyone to investigate (whether police, FBI, etc.), some basic details would have to be alleged, including time and place, one or more corroborating witnesses, or other facts that could be verified or disproved. The problem with this allegation is that there aren't any facts that can be verified. No one seems to know the time or place. No one is corroborating. There's no possibility of forensic evidence from so long ago (e.g., marks, bruises, etc.). There's nothing definitive for an investigator to go on. It's just one person's hazy memory vs. another person's denial. No investigation is going to be conclusive, and this will end in a stalemate.

So either you apply the principle that Kavanaugh is presumed innocent until shown to be guilty, or you just end his nomination in an abundance of caution because a woman said so.

The people who are going to vote against Kavanaugh's confirmation are likely the same people who have opposed it from day one. The people who support Kavanaugh probably still support him. In either case, this has become a political circus.