Hayward over Bell. Oh well hell, problem solved. Great idea.
The Adjustment that Should be made but Won't
- Thread starter The Pearl
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Hayward over Bell. Oh well hell, problem solved. Great idea.
candrew
Well-Known Member
On paper a solid idea.
In the real world, Deron might go along with it, say all the right things in the media, but believe me when I say he will bolt Utah the second his option comes up. And from his point of view (and his wallet's) it will be the right move.
I love D-Will the player. I love his fire and will to win. But the guy is a shameless stat whore. Maybe one of the worst in the league. Last season he was clearly trying to pad his stats during his double-double streak and showed-up Wes Matthews on the court in a game against Golden State because he passed up on a shot that would have given D-Will his 20th assist. Look at D-Will's body language every time a player passes up an open look after just getting the ball from him.
Do you really think he's going to give up numbers for the good of the franchise? A franchise that let 3 SG's go last year, all of which better than Bell, for virtually nothing? And, as a result, going from arguably the best PG in the league to a part-time PG and maybe a top 10 SG in the league?
Deron Williams views himself as a playmaker and a legit double-double guy. A very rare and valuable commodity. He's not going to willfully give that away for the sake of a franchise that doesn't have the ability to sign or retain a quality SG.
In the real world, Deron might go along with it, say all the right things in the media, but believe me when I say he will bolt Utah the second his option comes up. And from his point of view (and his wallet's) it will be the right move.
I love D-Will the player. I love his fire and will to win. But the guy is a shameless stat whore. Maybe one of the worst in the league. Last season he was clearly trying to pad his stats during his double-double streak and showed-up Wes Matthews on the court in a game against Golden State because he passed up on a shot that would have given D-Will his 20th assist. Look at D-Will's body language every time a player passes up an open look after just getting the ball from him.
Do you really think he's going to give up numbers for the good of the franchise? A franchise that let 3 SG's go last year, all of which better than Bell, for virtually nothing? And, as a result, going from arguably the best PG in the league to a part-time PG and maybe a top 10 SG in the league?
Deron Williams views himself as a playmaker and a legit double-double guy. A very rare and valuable commodity. He's not going to willfully give that away for the sake of a franchise that doesn't have the ability to sign or retain a quality SG.
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gomretat
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Disagree. Raja and CJ are both better against length then Deron. Against length, Deron is only good a few minutes at a time before he gets in trouble. If you go with your option, you are basically doing the outscore them approach. Never has won a championship.
However, I agree with the running part and even Sloan has said it. You are spot on about how good AK is in that kind of offense. Sap is not a starting PF caliber on a good team and running make him better.
LogGrad98
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Sure yeah that is what I meant. Yes Hayward is God and King and will overwhelm the NBA. That is obviously the ultimate answer for any team not just the Jazz. How can any of us be so stupid!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggXmKPMaHMo&feature=related
You crack me up. An idea is presented that might be better than what we have now, and you disregard every other single discussion on this entire forum and jump straight to the conclusion that someone thinks that is the ultimate answer for the Jazz. LOL and you disregard the entire point of our conversation entirely, that maybe some other logic than yours could be relevant. If you don't want to face that, then fine, but don't put words in my mouth (keyboard?). I guess whatever makes you feel like you are getting the upper hand.
Since when has this been the goal of this coaching staff? They've rarely put players in the position to win. You and I both know this, so to come here and suggest a move that will never happen, is both insulting and facetious.
LogGrad98
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Sadly, yep.
I don't know about starting Watson at PG but I like how the team runs a lot more when Watson and Deron are both on the floor. I also believe that playing Deron at the 2 actually INCREASES his opportunities to get an assist as it would likely be more in the flow of the offense as oppose to a simplistic drop-off/lob/PNR play where it doesn't involve 3 other players. I wouldn't play Deron there more than 15 MPG, though, but I think it should be explored more. And Hayward and CJ should play more too. And Bell is told to take a cold shower and practice jumpers for a week before being let back onto the floor.
Jazz4ever
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Watson is a good point guard for our system, he has (by far) the 3rd best adjusted +/- on the team and without the play of him and the bench unit to dig us out of our 1st quarter we would be at .500 right now.
Knowing that, Deron could absolutely be moved to the SG spot. His length disadvantage on D is no worse than his somewhat slow foot speed defending quick PG's. His shooting accuracy noticeably increases to downright deadly on off the ball catch and shoots.
The only way it works though is if we have size in our front court to help Deron with the big SG's. This is why Deron would not want to play SG currently imo. Millsap and Jefferson are getting outrebounded every night and its safe to assume Deron would be outrebounded by most opposing SG's. So I can't endorse it at this time.
Knowing that, Deron could absolutely be moved to the SG spot. His length disadvantage on D is no worse than his somewhat slow foot speed defending quick PG's. His shooting accuracy noticeably increases to downright deadly on off the ball catch and shoots.
The only way it works though is if we have size in our front court to help Deron with the big SG's. This is why Deron would not want to play SG currently imo. Millsap and Jefferson are getting outrebounded every night and its safe to assume Deron would be outrebounded by most opposing SG's. So I can't endorse it at this time.
Jean-Luc
Member
Spot on sir.
And, I as well have thought over and propositioned this Deron starting at the 2 thing.... it's good folks! Let's get it done. Get Raja as far down the bench as possible and keep him there. Also have someone take Memo out back and shoot him for Christ's sake.
billyshelby
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Deron could be sold on the idea. You explain that it's only for the this season, right now, and that his role will be like Roy's used to be--playing alongside a PG but handling the ball more than any other player AND the idea is to always get the ball in his hands when the clock winds down.
But as to Viny's point, this whole discussion is theoretical. Our coach absolutely believes we need Raja Bell on the floor 30 minutes a night. As long as that keeps happening, nothing else matters.
But as to Viny's point, this whole discussion is theoretical. Our coach absolutely believes we need Raja Bell on the floor 30 minutes a night. As long as that keeps happening, nothing else matters.
LogGrad98
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Honestly we have a potential HOF point guard, arguably the very best in the league right now, and you people want him to stop playing point guard.
I agree whole-heartedly Raja needs to be benched except for maybe 3 minutes per game. But for hell's sake, play another of our guards over him first. Watson had a nice game, really came through for us. But to pull Deron out of his spot, as best in the league, to have him play a spot where he would be pretty good (yes I know better than we have right now, but that is different than "best in the league") would be to hamper us at 2 spots. The net would not be better than what we would have if we simply started Hayward or CJ alongside Deron.
Sure Deron and Watson together is a good weapon to be used when we need it and it fits the situation. Getting Raja out of the regular rotation while keeping Deron at PG would help us more.
I agree whole-heartedly Raja needs to be benched except for maybe 3 minutes per game. But for hell's sake, play another of our guards over him first. Watson had a nice game, really came through for us. But to pull Deron out of his spot, as best in the league, to have him play a spot where he would be pretty good (yes I know better than we have right now, but that is different than "best in the league") would be to hamper us at 2 spots. The net would not be better than what we would have if we simply started Hayward or CJ alongside Deron.
Sure Deron and Watson together is a good weapon to be used when we need it and it fits the situation. Getting Raja out of the regular rotation while keeping Deron at PG would help us more.