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The case for Denzel Valentine

Chris

Well-Known Member
Assuming the Jazz keep pick #12, I think they should pick Denzel Valentine. While there are questions about his defensive prospects at the NBA level -- given his lack of lateral quickness and pure athleticism -- I don't see too many other deficiencies that would alarm me. On the positive side, I have a few items to offer:

1. He seems to be NBA ready. Around the time the season begins, Valentine will be 23. While his defensive game will certainly need improvement, his offensive game has some serious polish. He is consistent, plays within himself, has a terrific all-around offensive game, and has maturity and leadership in spades. He would likely not need 2-3 years to develop as a bench / D-League player, like some other wing prospects in this draft. For a team and fan base that is (and should be) ready to win now, he would be a good fit.

2. He provides much-needed outside shooting ability. He hit over 44% of his threes this past season. He appears to be able to create for himself and come off screens and knock down shots with proficiency and consistency. That ability alone on this Jazz team would be worth its weight in gold.

3. He brings versatility. While slightly undersized at the NBA 3, he does have a good wingspan for a 6'6" player. He could play the 1, the 2 (likely his best fit) and the 3. He can dribble, be a playmaker, hit from outside, drive and finish either in the lane or as a jump shooter. He has rebounding ability. He also has a good feel for the game and a great basketball IQ.

4. He could be a solid contributor at a position where the Jazz need depth. Let's be honest: as much as we like Alec Burks, we can't count on him to be healthy in any given season. Few of us seem to be excited about Chris Johnson and there is some uncertainty about Hayward's long-term commitment to the team. Joe Ingles is good, but not great. Get Valentine into the pipeline. In addition to all of the other things I've mentioned, he takes care of the ball; for a guy who passes as much as he does, he has a great assist-to-turnover ratio.

5. He's a jack of all trades. While many would be quick to point out that this also means "master of none," I ask you: what do you think you're going to get at pick #12? If he can improve his defense, he'll be a valuable all-around player without any glaring weaknesses. In this modern-day NBA, where position versatility is key, a coach like Quin Snyder can accentuate Valentine's positives and mask his weaknesses as he develops over the next few years.

6. His passing game at three positions complements the Jazz's offensive makeup. Some teams have definitive scorers, who are surrounded by role players; we don't. And while this is a liability a decent portion of the time and is one of the reasons we're not currently a playoff team, it is who we are right now. Even Hayward and (going forward) Hood, who you could make the case are the team's scorers, are solid all-around players who can do other things well. Valentine complements a team like the Jazz because he is adept at finding his teammates anywhere on the floor. But while he is a willing passer, he is also capable of scoring on his own. One of the things that the Jazz CAN do is hurt you from a number of different positions on a given night. Valentine would make that even more true with his skill set.

7. His question marks on the defensive end will be lessened by the Jazz's ability to play team defense. I'm confident that Valentine can become at least a decent NBA defender. But until that happens, I don't think -- at the 2-guard -- that he will kill the team in the same way that Big Al or Kanter's lack of defense tended to in years past. And with Valentine's wingspan, he has at least some physical tools to work with, even if he lacks the lateral quickness.

8. He's a good selection at #12 in this particular draft. This is a two-person draft, with some overall depth in the rest of the field. In looking at various mock drafts, would-be experts are all over the map with where these prospects project. More so than I've noticed in the last half dozen years. So I don't think an argument that -- within reason -- a player was taken a few spots too early is going to hold any real water once the Draft is in the books.
 
Assuming the Jazz keep pick #12, I think they should pick Denzel Valentine. While there are questions about his defensive prospects at the NBA level -- given his lack of lateral quickness and pure athleticism -- I don't see too many other deficiencies that would alarm me. On the positive side, I have a few items to offer:

1. He seems to be NBA ready. Around the time the season begins, Valentine will be 23. While his defensive game will certainly need improvement, his offensive game has some serious polish. He is consistent, plays within himself, has a terrific all-around offensive game, and has maturity and leadership in spades. He would likely not need 2-3 years to develop as a bench / D-League player, like some other wing prospects in this draft. For a team and fan base that is (and should be) ready to win now, he would be a good fit.

2. He provides much-needed outside shooting ability. He hit over 44% of his threes this past season. He appears to be able to create for himself and come off screens and knock down shots with proficiency and consistency. That ability alone on this Jazz team would be worth its weight in gold.

3. He brings versatility. While slightly undersized at the NBA 3, he does have a good wingspan for a 6'6" player. He could play the 1, the 2 (likely his best fit) and the 3. He can dribble, be a playmaker, hit from outside, drive and finish either in the lane or as a jump shooter. He has rebounding ability. He also has a good feel for the game and a great basketball IQ.

4. He could be a solid contributor at a position where the Jazz need depth. Let's be honest: as much as we like Alec Burks, we can't count on him to be healthy in any given season. Few of us seem to be excited about Chris Johnson and there is some uncertainty about Hayward's long-term commitment to the team. Joe Ingles is good, but not great. Get Valentine into the pipeline. In addition to all of the other things I've mentioned, he takes care of the ball; for a guy who passes as much as he does, he has a great assist-to-turnover ratio.

5. He's a jack of all trades. While many would be quick to point out that this also means "master of none," I ask you: what do you think you're going to get at pick #12? If he can improve his defense, he'll be a valuable all-around player without any glaring weaknesses. In this modern-day NBA, where position versatility is key, a coach like Quin Snyder can accentuate Valentine's positives and mask his weaknesses as he develops over the next few years.

6. His passing game at three positions complements the Jazz's offensive makeup. Some teams have definitive scorers, who are surrounded by role players; we don't. And while this is a liability a decent portion of the time and is one of the reasons we're not currently a playoff team, it is who we are right now. Even Hayward and (going forward) Hood, who you could make the case are the team's scorers, are solid all-around players who can do other things well. Valentine complements a team like the Jazz because he is adept at finding his teammates anywhere on the floor. But while he is a willing passer, he is also capable of scoring on his own. One of the things that the Jazz CAN do is hurt you from a number of different positions on a given night. Valentine would make that even more true with his skill set.

7. His question marks on the defensive end will be lessened by the Jazz's ability to play team defense. I'm confident that Valentine can become at least a decent NBA defender. But until that happens, I don't think -- at the 2-guard -- that he will kill the team in the same way that Big Al or Kanter's lack of defense tended to in years past. And with Valentine's wingspan, he has at least some physical tools to work with, even if he lacks the lateral quickness.

8. He's a good selection at #12 in this particular draft. This is a two-person draft, with some overall depth in the rest of the field. In looking at various mock drafts, would-be experts are all over the map with where these prospects project. More so than I've noticed in the last half dozen years. So I don't think an argument that -- within reason -- a player was taken a few spots too early is going to hold any real water once the Draft is in the books.

All good points. Hi athleticism will be a major constraint at next level. Won't be able to score like he did in college. Defensive liability too big to fit our identity.
 
Good post. I don't know anything about him but I like what I read in your post

I'm down.

Plus we can bring on that summer league guy that has been with the jazz recently named christmas and then go after jrue holiday.

Holiday
Valentine
Christmas
 
Good post. I don't know anything about him but I like what I read in your post

I'm down.

Plus we can bring on that summer league guy that has been with the jazz recently named christmas and then go after jrue holiday.

Holiday
Valentine
Christmas
Say no to Holiday. I'd like to put the injury issues behind us. Lol
 
Valentine sure took a dive in the latest DX mock. I like him but I'm really starting to warm up to Luwawu.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNZJlBRqL8o
 
We are in win mode now. Maybe when we were rebuilding. We would end up playing him over Exum. Exum needs to develop as fast as possible. He does this by playing more mins. Plus Holiday isn't getting us any new wins. This does nothing to help the team anymore then what we have.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Valentine is the perfect case of a good college player, e.g., Trey Burke.

I doubt he can do half the things he does now in the NBA. It took him 4 years to get good in college. To be 23 and playing well against 19 yr olds, in a league where athleticism is hidden, and slow pace is rewarded via a long *** shot clock, doesn't really impress me.

His lack of lateral quickness is a real issue. Not something you can overlook by saying we're a good defensive team.

I'd swing on Thon Maker. You don't really find people in thedraft who are ready to help from day one. If we need that, we'll have to trade for that, or seriously overpay for it in FA. Th draf is where you find prospects, and to be honesst, Valentine is too old to have much room for improvement.
 
Valentine is the perfect case of a good college player, e.g., Trey Burke.

I doubt he can do half the things he does now in the NBA. It took him 4 years to get good in college. To be 23 and playing well against 19 yr olds, in a league where athleticism is hidden, and slow pace is rewarded via a long *** shot clock, doesn't really impress me.

His lack of lateral quickness is a real issue. Not something you can overlook by saying we're a good defensive team.

I'd swing on Thon Maker. You don't really find people in thedraft who are ready to help from day one. If we need that, we'll have to trade for that, or seriously overpay for it in FA. Th draf is where you find prospects, and to be honesst, Valentine is too old to have much room for improvement.

The shot clock is a whole six seconds longer than the NBA's.
 
Assuming the Jazz keep pick #12, I think they should pick Denzel Valentine. While there are questions about his defensive prospects at the NBA level -- given his lack of lateral quickness and pure athleticism -- I don't see too many other deficiencies that would alarm me. On the positive side, I have a few items to offer:

1. He seems to be NBA ready. Around the time the season begins, Valentine will be 23. While his defensive game will certainly need improvement, his offensive game has some serious polish. He is consistent, plays within himself, has a terrific all-around offensive game, and has maturity and leadership in spades. He would likely not need 2-3 years to develop as a bench / D-League player, like some other wing prospects in this draft. For a team and fan base that is (and should be) ready to win now, he would be a good fit.

2. He provides much-needed outside shooting ability. He hit over 44% of his threes this past season. He appears to be able to create for himself and come off screens and knock down shots with proficiency and consistency. That ability alone on this Jazz team would be worth its weight in gold.

3. He brings versatility. While slightly undersized at the NBA 3, he does have a good wingspan for a 6'6" player. He could play the 1, the 2 (likely his best fit) and the 3. He can dribble, be a playmaker, hit from outside, drive and finish either in the lane or as a jump shooter. He has rebounding ability. He also has a good feel for the game and a great basketball IQ.

4. He could be a solid contributor at a position where the Jazz need depth. Let's be honest: as much as we like Alec Burks, we can't count on him to be healthy in any given season. Few of us seem to be excited about Chris Johnson and there is some uncertainty about Hayward's long-term commitment to the team. Joe Ingles is good, but not great. Get Valentine into the pipeline. In addition to all of the other things I've mentioned, he takes care of the ball; for a guy who passes as much as he does, he has a great assist-to-turnover ratio.

5. He's a jack of all trades. While many would be quick to point out that this also means "master of none," I ask you: what do you think you're going to get at pick #12? If he can improve his defense, he'll be a valuable all-around player without any glaring weaknesses. In this modern-day NBA, where position versatility is key, a coach like Quin Snyder can accentuate Valentine's positives and mask his weaknesses as he develops over the next few years.

6. His passing game at three positions complements the Jazz's offensive makeup. Some teams have definitive scorers, who are surrounded by role players; we don't. And while this is a liability a decent portion of the time and is one of the reasons we're not currently a playoff team, it is who we are right now. Even Hayward and (going forward) Hood, who you could make the case are the team's scorers, are solid all-around players who can do other things well. Valentine complements a team like the Jazz because he is adept at finding his teammates anywhere on the floor. But while he is a willing passer, he is also capable of scoring on his own. One of the things that the Jazz CAN do is hurt you from a number of different positions on a given night. Valentine would make that even more true with his skill set.

7. His question marks on the defensive end will be lessened by the Jazz's ability to play team defense. I'm confident that Valentine can become at least a decent NBA defender. But until that happens, I don't think -- at the 2-guard -- that he will kill the team in the same way that Big Al or Kanter's lack of defense tended to in years past. And with Valentine's wingspan, he has at least some physical tools to work with, even if he lacks the lateral quickness.

8. He's a good selection at #12 in this particular draft. This is a two-person draft, with some overall depth in the rest of the field. In looking at various mock drafts, would-be experts are all over the map with where these prospects project. More so than I've noticed in the last half dozen years. So I don't think an argument that -- within reason -- a player was taken a few spots too early is going to hold any real water once the Draft is in the books.


Counterpoints:

1. If your position is defined by who you can guard he is position less. Mich St. designed their defensive schemes around hiding Valentine. That means he can't be a rotation player at a championship level team because he can't guard anyone.

From Draftexpress:
While Valentine doesn't look scared to mix things up on the glass, he's an extremely poor defender that needed to be hidden constantly at the college level in order to not emerge as a liability. While somewhat of a combo guard offensively, he's best suited guarding small forwards who don't have much in the way of ball-handling ability or explosiveness on the other end. His lateral quickness is very poor, he doesn't cover ground well, and his effort really comes and goes, as he often looks fairly lazy closing out on shooters or trying to keep his man in front. Valentine relies heavily on reaching and grabbing his man to try and slow him down, which simply will not work at the NBA level.

https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Denzel-Valentine-58739/

2. He was only offensively effective when he could 'out-mature' his competition. His sophomore season as 8 ppg, 3.8 apg, 6 rpg in 29.8 mpg is probably more representative of his pro success than him beating up on 18 and 19 year old players.

3. He couldn't raise his game against Middle Tenn St. How is he going to raise his game against the Warriors?

More from Draftexpress
Another concern is his lack of burst offensively, as he often has a tough time turning the corner against better defenders in the half-court. His size, strength and ability to change speeds works to his advantage at the college level, but there are concerns about whether he'll be able to do the same against NBA-level defenders, where everyone is much bigger, longer, stronger and more athletic.

With as good of a season as he had, he still converted just 48% of his 2-point attempts (67th best out the 80 college prospects in the DX Top-100) and got to the free throw line just 4 times per-40 minutes (also ranked 67th out of 80). When he is able to get past his man, he often simply isn't explosive enough to finish what he creates inside the paint, forcing him to rely very heavily on floaters.

We can do better from an athletic profile with someone like Luwawu, Baldwin, etc.
 
Valentine has bust written all over him. I'd prefer the Jazz to swing for the fences with this pick, hopefully its the last time they will be in the lottery for a while.
 
Valentine is my man. I was gonna start this thread a week ago. Here's the thing [MENTION=1573]Chris[/MENTION] he is a shooting guard who can actually play point. I would start him there. His court vision is amazing and he shoots like Jason Kidd in his final seasons. Kidd was not fast either but he has eyes in the back of his head so does Valentine. Elite court vision.

Think is tho I know we can trade a future late first to snag him around 15-17 instead at 12. Or maybe trade down this draft and take a asset and a bad contract back. Makes no sense to waste assets by drafting a guy to high.
 
Not a Valentine fan. If we're going to go with a more experienced player that we hope can come in and play right away, then I like Brogdon a lot better (I realize I'm more bullish on Brogdon than most). Just think Valentine's defense is really going to limit his effectiveness. And on a team that is so much based on its defense, it's hard to put a young guy on the court that is a complete liability defensively. Valentine sort of sounds like a shorter Joe Ingles to me.
 
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I would imagine that those who like Hield should like Valentime as well. Both have similar questions of defense, and ability to create for themselves at the next level. Valentime is a much better passer and rebounder in comparison to Hield, and a fairly similar shooter.

Big concern for Valentine is his poor 2pt fg% and low ft rate. He's obviously a bad defender, although with his IQ and size, you can at least see the potential to be better. Not sure he's that much worse of a defensive prospect coming out than Rodney Hood.

I think Valentine's best role is PG coming off the bench, maybe even a 6th man. He is a great shooter, and that should translate. So while not athletic, his ability to shoot + pass should keep defenses honest. He's really one of the best passing prospects, regardless of position, to come out in a long time. I think people undervalue that a lot.

I think Hield is best coming off the bench as well. He shoots very well, but doesn't do much else. Not that much more athletic than Valentine tbh.

I'd probly rather have Valentine.
 
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