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The Growing Thirst for Cruelty

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the left forcing their self-proclaimed moral high-ground on others they seemed to be inconsequential
When did this happen? No, seriously, what is this even referring to?

The funny thing about your response and zombies is you both completely missed the part quoting from Bourdain about breaking bread, finding common ground and uniting the people
I did allude to this in my post, I think the way to do this is to address the material needs of working people which the democrats have certainly failed to do. That said, this framing is part of the problem. When I break bread with my conservative friends and family there is no effort on their end to “find common ground” with me nor is there any expectation for them to do so. They exist in a completely different reality from the rest of us, and have for years now. As far as politics are concerned the only way to find common ground is to join them in their delusion.

You are still focused on right=bad, left=good instead of where do we go from here and how do we heal a fractured nation.

This is always a little funny to me because, yes I am a left wing person who thinks right wing beliefs are bad. That’s kind of the whole point. Frankly, our current moment is very effectively proving that out.

Our society is ill, coddling dangerous beliefs out of a misguided attempt to heal that illness isn’t going to fix it. I think there’s a useful lesson to learn from the post civil war reconstruction era - we didn’t hold the south accountable, white supremacist power structure were left in place and black people continue to suffer indignities because of that to this day. If we hope to claw our republic back from the clutches of authoritarianism that must include a reckoning for the political ideology that brought us here. The modern Republican Party needs to be treated more like the Nazi party was after WW2 and less like the secessionists were after the civil war.
 
"Taking over college campuses and harassing fellow students?" What specific law was broken? Wouldn't the university police have arrested her if she committed a crime? In America even visitors have the right to protest. As a matter of fact our country was founded upon it, which you may not know since as you said both you and your parents are immigrants. Saudi Arabia, right? Too bad that you show such disdain for the freedoms earned and protected by great Americans over the last 250 years. I bet most Saudi's, the women especially, would love to have our freedoms. BTW, is it because you're from Saudi Arabia you think women like AOC are only worthy of support based upon their looks? Maybe your dad treated your mom like that? Just trying to figure out how your views came about.
I lived in Saudi Arabia, but was not born there.

As for the student, the university police did arrest her at a protest for breaking laws. Obviously you did not read the articles. She was arrested, but the DA declined to pursue charges. Per the conditions of her student visa, she was required to report any arrests, and she did not. That is why her student visa was revoked. Her subsequent refusal to comply with the order to leave the country was why ICE had to get involved. She defied law enforcement twice. She can go back to the Middle East and break laws there. We don't need her here.
 
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Lots of "oh yeah well what about this" rather than just acknowledging that the left isn't perfect. Hand waving these issue aside is part of the problem. See 2 things can be true at the same time, the right can be largely a bunch of fascist pigs AND the left forcing their self-proclaimed moral high-ground on others they seemed to be inconsequential can both be true. And they are definitely tied together. No one claimed cause and effect but for us to move forward we have to make improvements in both arenas. We can't just say "see, I told you so, everyone who disagree with us should have been cancelled from the beginning and none of this would have happened". It doesn't do anything to unite. The funny thing about your response and zombies is you both completely missed the part quoting from Bourdain about breaking bread, finding common ground and uniting the people. You are still focused on right=bad, left=good instead of where do we go from here and how do we heal a fractured nation. But that's exactly what Bourdain talked about. He had it right.
Who claims that the left is perfect?

Who is canceling the right?

These last few posts are weird to me.
Lots of "oh yeah well what about this" rather than just acknowledging that the left isn't perfect. Hand waving these issue aside is part of the problem. See 2 things can be true at the same time, the right can be largely a bunch of fascist pigs AND the left forcing their self-proclaimed moral high-ground on others they seemed to be inconsequential can both be true. And they are definitely tied together. No one claimed cause and effect but for us to move forward we have to make improvements in both arenas. We can't just say "see, I told you so, everyone who disagree with us should have been cancelled from the beginning and none of this would have happened". It doesn't do anything to unite. The funny thing about your response and zombies is you both completely missed the part quoting from Bourdain about breaking bread, finding common ground and uniting the people. You are still focused on right=bad, left=good instead of where do we go from here and how do we heal a fractured nation. But that's exactly what Bourdain talked about. He had it right.
It’s Interesting that you never answered any of my questions in my previous post. Why?

I’ve read the Bourdain article when it first came out. I didn’t miss his point, I just disagree with it altogether. In fact, I find *The Opposite* to be true. The *PROSPERITY* of western democracy has led to people voting for Trump. This has led people to being vulnerable to demagogues and fascism. The left shouldn’t be breaking bread with fascists. This compromises made by small d democrats throughout western democracy is what’s led to democractic backsliding worldwide and a fascist takeover here. The Overton window has shifted so far to the right because too many have sacrificed principles and values to coddle that which should’ve never been coddled. Namely: racial prejudice, religious bigotry, rampant sexism, and anti-democratic behavior. Boredom and prosperity has led to a large segment of the population exacerbating prejudices into their own personal missions aka "My Struggle."

Could you please now answer my questions? For convince, I’ll rewrite them here:

1. How has the left mistreated the right in the last 30 years? I’d like specific examples.
2. Can this work both ways? Did Obama punish the right by giving red states health care or Biden punish red states by sending billions in infrastructure money? Can you name a time when anyone has asked the right to “repent” for mistreating the left? Why isn’t the right ever asked to compromise, seek middle ground?
3. What impact does the highly developed right wing propagsnda apparatus have in shaping the thought of the right? Is it greater than whatever actions taken by the left?

Lastly, the left is good and the right is bad right now. The left isn’t perfect but the right has radicalized itself independent of what the left has done. The left still supports democracy and isn’t destroying alliances, the global economy, and trampling freedoms. What you’re complaining about seems to be something we can complain about after this crisis has been averted. Right now our heads are in the jaws of a lion and you’re demanding that we try to reason with the lion because supporting gay marriage is what ticked off the lion.
 
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I hope someday we can break bread but the right are either assholes or incredibly stupid. Makes it tough.
We cannot break bread with fascists. We can argue what the appropriate tax rate should be later. But right now, anything left of fascism should unite and support the one party that still supports democracy , rule of law, and human rights.
 
When did this happen? No, seriously, what is this even referring to?


I did allude to this in my post, I think the way to do this is to address the material needs of working people which the democrats have certainly failed to do. That said, this framing is part of the problem. When I break bread with my conservative friends and family there is no effort on their end to “find common ground” with me nor is there any expectation for them to do so. They exist in a completely different reality from the rest of us, and have for years now. As far as politics are concerned the only way to find common ground is to join them in their delusion.



This is always a little funny to me because, yes I am a left wing person who thinks right wing beliefs are bad. That’s kind of the whole point. Frankly, our current moment is very effectively proving that out.

Our society is ill, coddling dangerous beliefs out of a misguided attempt to heal that illness isn’t going to fix it. I think there’s a useful lesson to learn from the post civil war reconstruction era - we didn’t hold the south accountable, white supremacist power structure were left in place and black people continue to suffer indignities because of that to this day. If we hope to claw our republic back from the clutches of authoritarianism that must include a reckoning for the political ideology that brought us here. The modern Republican Party needs to be treated more like the Nazi party was after WW2 and less like the secessionists were after the civil war.
They live in an alternate reality from you because of the propaganda apparatus they’ve become addicted to. This is what’s driving their radicalism, not anything done by the left. This is the problem, people are being radicalized on the right independent of anything the left does.

Propaganda
Works

And until Fox News and dudebro podcasts see a steep loss in demand for the meth they’re selling, they’re gonna continue to do it. Until fascists are thrown out of office and many jailed, nothing will change. The incentive structure for republican primary voters remain the same as it’s been for 10+ years; nominate the angriest, cruelest, dumbest person you can. That’s why Trump is so popular within the party and folks like Romney aren’t. Until that incentive structure changes? The party won’t be healthy.

Imagine how much different the world would be right now had Donald been convicted by the senate after any of his impeachments? Imprisoned after Jan 6? Imagine how different the entire gop would be right now had they accepted Obama’s win in 2012 and taken to heart the GOP autopsy to “soften up” on women, blacks, sexual minorities, and drop the hard stances on immigration and abortion? Instead, they and they alone chose to dig their heels in deeper.
 
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Lastly, the left is good and the right is bad right now. The left isn’t perfect but the right has radicalized itself independent of what the left has done.


This process goes all the way back to the rise of the tea party and the Fox News effect but it is undoubtedly true. There is no comparative echo chamber or centralized hate machine on the left, anywhere in the world. In fact the left is weaker than ever and the right act like its the opposite.
 
I just want to reiterate, have we considered that democratic backsliding worldwide isn't the result of "the left" mistreating "the right?" Whether you're talking about Modi in India, Brexit in the UK, or Le Pen in France? Have we considered the old excuse of, "economic anxiety" pushing people to the right actually being completely false? Have we considered it's the opposite, since the fall of communism, the spread of democracy, free trade, and prosperity has led to people becoming bored and disenchanted with freedom and democracy? Thus creating demand for the hard drugs that Fox News and other right wing propaganda outlets throughout the world now export globally to people disenchanted with democracy because it's given them so much peace and prosperity?

Ask yourselves, those (MAGA and non-MAGA) who voted for Trump in their lives, are they really poor people in great want of material goods or are they people who have abundance and have now fallen down the Internet rabbit holes of racism, sexism, anti-vax conspiracy? This plays out globally as well. Those who voted for Brexit were overwhelmingly the rich, not those suffering from "economic anxiety." I suspect we'd see the same patterns if we analyzed the popularity of Le Pen, Modi, etc.

All I ask is that we:

1. Consider that boredom and prosperity, not "being left behind materially" is what's left people vulnerable to right wing extremism.
2. Consider that "the right" has free agency independent of the left but is deciding to go the extremist route because it's lucrative and effective than the compromise and moderation necessary to function within a democratic system.
 
So does anyone know what kind of deal we have with El Salvador? Those deported from America to El Salvador, are they in that gulag… indefinitely? Do they serve a term? If they are sent there without due process and/or are sent over false pretenses, how do they get back and what should the government do to compensate them?

When was this deal made with El Salvador? Seems like I should have a say over my tax dollars going to pay and maintain a gulag there. Does the Trump family receive personal benefits from El Salvador? Why El Salvador? Why not deport immigrants to the countries of their origin?

are we comfortable with the head of DHS parading around like Nazi Barbie here? This cool? Republicans do know how to get attention. I doubt anyone here could name Biden’s sec of DHS without googling. I miss having a presidency that wasn’t always demanding our attention every single day. I’m old enough to remember a time when the president didn’t make every single day his own personal reality teevee show.

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So does anyone know what kind of deal we have with El Salvador? Those deported from America to El Salvador, are they in that gulag… indefinitely? Do they serve a term? If they are sent there without due process and/or are sent over false pretenses, how do they get back and what should the government do to compensate them?

When was this deal made with El Salvador? Seems like I should have a say over my tax dollars going to pay and maintain a gulag there. Does the Trump family receive personal benefits from El Salvador? Why El Salvador? Why not deport immigrants to the countries of their origin?

are we comfortable with the head of DHS parading around like Nazi Barbie here? This cool? Republicans do know how to get attention. I doubt anyone here could name Biden’s sec of DHS without googling. I miss having a presidency that wasn’t always demanding our attention every single day. I’m old enough to remember a time when the president didn’t make every single day his own personal reality teevee show.

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Nice Gucci gun, shouldn't she be pointing it at her plastic face?
 
lol

Again, it’s dumb and silly. But in this political environment, attention is what wins. This is what Democrats and President AOC must do 24/7. Legislate? Meh. But message the hell lot of things. Even if the economy is sluggish, make it sound like it’s doing amazing. Demand attention. Only nerds, like me, actually like quiet and competent leadership.

Most of the country likes this ****, apparently:


View: https://youtu.be/n4A9W9pBvUQ?feature=shared
 
So does anyone know what kind of deal we have with El Salvador? Those deported from America to El Salvador, are they in that gulag… indefinitely? Do they serve a term? If they are sent there without due process and/or are sent over false pretenses, how do they get back and what should the government do to compensate them?

When was this deal made with El Salvador? Seems like I should have a say over my tax dollars going to pay and maintain a gulag there. Does the Trump family receive personal benefits from El Salvador? Why El Salvador? Why not deport immigrants to the countries of their origin?

are we comfortable with the head of DHS parading around like Nazi Barbie here? This cool? Republicans do know how to get attention. I doubt anyone here could name Biden’s sec of DHS without googling. I miss having a presidency that wasn’t always demanding our attention every single day. I’m old enough to remember a time when the president didn’t make every single day his own personal reality teevee show.

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Puppies are trembling in fear seeing her with a gun
 
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