I think most of the Matthews threads are only considering the short term effect of matching. What we really need to look at it, is the long term. We traded RB because we felt he wasn't the long-term answer, and thought that Matthews might be that guy. If he is, then no way should we not match.
The Long Term Implications of the Matthews Match
- Thread starter write4u
- Start date
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
That's where I'm torn on this. For as bad as people want to make the contract sound (and I'll admit it's not a great deal for Utah), nearly 30% of the contract comes off the books after that first year. The final 4 years of the deal, Matthews is basically going to average the full MLE. That's not terrible. If matched, I don't think Utah fans are going to be looking at this deal as a back-breaker that is keeping us from making other moves. Deals like the Kirilenko deal are what kill you years down the road.
If Utah matches the offer, they better be sure that Matthews is the starting SG for this team over the next 5 years, and when I say sure, they better be damned sure.
I don't think Matthews has hit his ceiling. Granted, he's already 23 so I don't think his ceiling is much higher but I think a good example is how Wes elevated his game in the playoffs. His points and 3 point shooting % all took pretty good jumps. If that's the Wes Matthews that we're going to get night in and night out, then sign me up.
However, I still see the merits of not matching. I think if Portland had to take on Wes' contract it would hurt them more than it would hurt Utah paying him that much. While Portland's owner has deeper pockets, he also has a higher payroll and will be paying $9 million next year for a player who may not even be the first option off the bench.
I've gone back and forth on this a ton so I've decided that since I can't make up my mind that I'm going to see the silver lining when Utah makes their choice.
If the Jazz match, we have our starting SG locked up and I just happen to think that he's the perfect player for this system and we know what we're going to get night in and night out.
If they don't match, Portland gets stuck with a contract they probably didn't even really want and we still can move on with cheaper alternatives.
InGameStrategy
Well-Known Member
Does this really require its own thread, on top of "most of the Matthews threads"?
You are right on cash perspective. However, as far as I know, the cap effect is different as the initial payment will be distributed to other years ( and first year cap will not get the 30% hit)
carolinajazz
Well-Known Member
...personally, I like threads with more distinctive "themes"..... as opposed to just general ones. I have no problem with it.
BENTLEY
Well-Known Member
I think people are overvaluing Matthews because his story is so awesome. He's a cool guy and in his rookie year worked his tail off. And so he earned this bloated contract. Good for him. But now that he's accomplished his goal I'm not sure he'll bust his *** so hard. I'm not saying he won't - but we've only seen him one year so far, and that was a year in which he was working extremely hard to earn a bigger paycheck.
There still are some question marks with him, and weaknesses. And considering the minimal drop-off from him to Brewer, and the much better price tag, I don't see a problem just bringing back Brewer and letting Wes join Portland's backcourt ensemble.
There still are some question marks with him, and weaknesses. And considering the minimal drop-off from him to Brewer, and the much better price tag, I don't see a problem just bringing back Brewer and letting Wes join Portland's backcourt ensemble.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
I couldn't disagree more.
It has nothing to do with whether Wes came from the undrafted ranks or was our first rounder from last year. I could care less about his story. He kicked ***.
People have seen years of terrible SGs since Jeff Hornacek. Matthews was the first one that
A. Had athleticism
B. Could shoot
C. Played defense
Korver could shoot, but didn't have A or C.
Brewer was athletic, but really couldn't do B and C was pretty average.
Kirk Snyder sucked. What an abortion.
Gircek couldn't do any of the above. Bell was decent... Cheney, Starks, and Fisher couldn't do any of the above.
If we want to let Matthews go, hopefully we understand that it might take another 10 years to find a SG that plays defense, can shoot, and is athletic.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Great points by Thriller, write4u and jazzman12.
And Bentley...there is a HUGE dropoff from Matthews to Brewer. About equal defensively - Brewer takes more chances, Wes plays more straight-up. But do you understand how rare it is for a SG to hit 48% on his FG's? Who else did last season? I'll give you some help. Here are some of the players who didn't: DWade, Kobe, Allen, Johnson, Crawford.
I've been torn on this one. And I'll support the Jazz whichever way they go. I like Matthews...a LOT. Sign him and we can't do much else. Sign him and use a TPE and we won't have much space under the cap next season. And, IMO, that's the only way to possibly get a player like Marc Gasol. We'd have to really overpay. Which means we'd need to get under the CAP, not just the tax threshold. I don't see Utah going anywhere without a decent center.
Now if the Jazz feel Fesenko & Tomic can patrol the lane, then by all means, match the offer for Matthews. I really like a Matthews, Honzward, CJ rotation at the 2/3. Or maybe we'll get lucky and can use AK's expiring to get a BIG. Haywood was the prize last year but we were selling, not buying. This year it changes. Even matching for MAtthews, Jazz can be right around the tax threshold, meaning we can take back $17M for AK.
Tough decision.
rqt.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Matthews is quite average athletically. Most SGs don't get stuffed by the rim as many times as Matthews did. He's okay on the ground but has poor leaping ability.
He's an average shooter.
He plays defense, not that some on the opposite team notice and score on him anyway. He's definitely worth a contract, but I'm willing to bet he's not worth the 7.5 million dollar cap hit in year 5.
He's an average shooter.
He plays defense, not that some on the opposite team notice and score on him anyway. He's definitely worth a contract, but I'm willing to bet he's not worth the 7.5 million dollar cap hit in year 5.
He's only an inch or so taller than Deron ... and he outjumps Deron. No one says Deron is unathletic. Plus you discount his speed ... he can motor with the best of them, and has quick feet, which is one of the reasons he's a good defender. And I don't recall him getting stuffed by the rim ... you got the clips to prove this? I watched every game this year, and I don't recall such an occurrence.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Boy that wasn't hard. And he outjumps Deron?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjhlvbbPn30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjhlvbbPn30
afrojazz
New Member
This is tough. I am not sure Wesley is worth that much money over that many years. It is one thing to be overpaid for a season or two, but you are going to have him on the books for FIVE freakin' seasons. Is Wesley a cornerstone? Is he the answer at SG for the next half decade? How much "upside" does he have? How will this affect the restructured cap and salary rules in the NBA? Portland is taking a huge gamble on this for essentially a backup SG they see as a defensive specialist, but I suspect Portland will use his as a permanant piece of trade filler for other marque players.
Why not...slide CJ down to SG and start Hayward at SF to speed up his development. Sign Strange Brew to be your cheaper, off-the-bench energy guy. And bring in another FA as another bench wing player. I don't think Matthews won't be missed that much at all in Utah...while in Portland he will not get a lot of minutes and will eat up a roster spot and cap space.
Why not...slide CJ down to SG and start Hayward at SF to speed up his development. Sign Strange Brew to be your cheaper, off-the-bench energy guy. And bring in another FA as another bench wing player. I don't think Matthews won't be missed that much at all in Utah...while in Portland he will not get a lot of minutes and will eat up a roster spot and cap space.
Lord of Turnovers
New Member
It is really amusing how often Matthews' FG% is brought up as an indication that he is a good SG. Who else did it last eason? Pretty much every shooting guard on the Jazz: Brewer and Korver had 49 FG%. Or such outstanding SGs as Bill Walker, Sonny Weems, Marquis Daniels or DeMar DeRozan.
It is quite easy to shoot a high % if you are a fifth option on on the court on a team that runs a structured offense using players that are willing to pass. But what happened when the Jazz lost two of their first options for the 2010 playoffs and Matthews was all of a sudden forced to become not the last, but the third option? His shooting percentage plummeted to 39%, that what happened!
Guys like DWade, Kobe or Allen carry their teams as the first-second option on offense. If you put Matthews in that position no way he would be able to shoot even 45% - he is simply not good enough to outplay elite defenders or to break down double teams. And, since you specifically mentioned them, both Allen and Wade did shoot 48% in the 2009-2010 regular season.
I think it's too big a contract for him. That being said, if the cap hit is multiplied to be 5.5 million a year throughout the contract, then I won't be as upset as I was when I thought like 9 million or so would be the cap hit for the first year. Keeping in mind I only have the most basic knowledge about how the cap works in the NBA.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure Matthews Cap Hit is his annual salary year to year plus the pro-rated signing bonus. For ease of numbers, say the signing bonus was 5 million. That would mean his first year salary is 5.75 mil + 1 mil for a 6.75 hit. The signing bonus may be less, but I think this is how it works. Thus, in year 5, if his salary was 7.5, his Cap Hit would be 8.5.
Hopper
Banned
On the other hand, his 5th year salary can never reach $7.5 million if he gets $5 million up front.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Isn't his first year salary 5.75? In any case, I'm pretty sure it was reported in the Trib his final 3 years were "approximately" 6, 6.5, and 7. But if I recall correctly, the Arenas provision limits his second year salary. Thus his contract, if structured to maximums, would look something like 5.7, 5.7, 6.2, 6.7, and 7.2. I don't think the numbers matter so much as you add the prorated bonus onto each year to determine the Cap Hit.