The lunatics have taken over

[Red]

It's dangerous because it's not Biblically supported.....as are many so-called "Christian" traditions that have been adopted from "Pagan" teachings and beliefs! Biblical "truths" and so called "Christian" traditions are completely different and opposites! Consider this fact: real yoga is not merely a form of exercise. It is a Hindu religious practice. “The chief aim of the Yoga philosophy is to teach the means by which the human soul may be completely united with the Supreme Spirit,” according to Dr.B.S.Surti.....whether one wants to admit to it or not!

The unvarnished truth is that the practice of yoga....in any form.....is spiritism, which is condemned in the Bible. (Rev. 21:8) Chiefly behind such occult power is “the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth.” (Rev. 12:9) Because of that reason, Yoga in any form cannot benefit you. It can only do you harm.

Well, I fully realize I'm talking to a completely close minded individual here, but I'm going to waste my time and point out just how wrong you are, anyway. You mention that yoga desires the soul be completely united with the Supreme Spirit, as if this were somehow a very bad thing? Yet such a unitive state is precisely the goal of Christian mysticism:


https://www.blessed-sacrament.org/contemplation1.doc

The unitive state of the soul with the Godhead is the ultimate goal of the Christian contemplative tradition. Why you would find that antithetical to Christianity, or something that is somehow wrong eludes me. But, obviously, I'll stop here. I just thought I would counter your misconceptions. You really don't know what you are talking about where yoga is concerned, but are instead relying on your bigoted assumptions. This is a level of hubris I am not accustomed to seeing in an individual. I'm not going to say I feel sorry for you, because the fact is, there are many uneducated dogmatic close minded individuals like yourself out there. And you'll never grow into any meaningful understanding. You are likely destined to remain locked in your dark little world for the remainder of your life. But here, I'm glad to see, your nonsense does indeed fall on deaf ears and far more perceptive people.

 

[carolinajazz]

The unitive state of the soul with the Godhead is the ultimate goal of the Christian contemplative tradition. Why you would find that antithetical to Christianity, or something that is somehow wrong eludes me.

The "ultimate goal"? How did you reach that conclusion? First of all, the human "soul" is not what you think it is at all! The Bible's definition of the "soul" is FAR DIFFERENT than what apostate main stream "Christendom" defines or thinks it is! The idea that prevailed in ancient Babylon and spread worldwide—the idea that man has an immortal soul or spirit that merely inhabits a physical body, is NOT what the Bible teaches!

When Christendom adopted that idea, theologians twisted the Scriptures to make texts that describe the heavenly hope appear to teach that all good people go to heaven. According to this view, a person’s life on earth is intended to be transitory—a test to determine if he is worthy of life in heaven. Something similar happened to the early Jewish hope of everlasting life on earth. As the Jews gradually adopted the Greek idea of inherent immortality, their original hope of life on earth faded. How different this is from the way man is presented in the Bible! Man is a physical creature, not a spirit. The Creator said to the first man: “Dust you are.” (Gen. 3:19) The earth, not heaven, is man’s everlasting home.

(Psalm 115:16) " As for the heavens, they belong to God, But the earth he has given to the sons of men."

That the Soul Is Immortal...is a myth!

What is the origin of the myth? “The early Christian philosophers adopted the Greek concept of the soul’s immortality and thought of the soul as being created by God and infused into the body at conception.”—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1988), Volume*11, page*25.

What does the Bible say? “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”—Ezekiel 18:4, King James Version.
Regarding the creation of the first human soul, the Bible says: “ God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh].”—Genesis 2:7.

The Hebrew word neʹphesh, translated “soul,” means ‘a creature that breathes.’ When God created the first man, Adam, He did not infuse into him an immortal soul but the life force that is maintained by breathing. Therefore, “soul” in the Biblical sense refers to the entire living being. If separated from the life force originally given by God, the soul dies.—Genesis 3:19; Ezekiel 18:20.

I'm not "closed minded" by any stretch of the imagination! Heck, I've already reversed my viewpoint on Curry....and I think he's the best shooter in NBA history! But what is established truth is the TRUTH!

Since nothing is said to imply that the first man was implanted with a soul or received it, we must ask: If the soul “came to be” only after breathing began, why conclude that it continues to live when a person stops breathing and dies? There is no mistaking this fact: Breathing is of do-or-die importance to a soul.

While man is distinct from animals, it is not because of his being a soul. When God let loose devastating floodwaters in Noah’s day, ‘all flesh, flying creatures, domestic animals, wild beasts, all the swarms, and mankind, everything in which the breath of the force of life was active in its nostrils died.’ Those same kinds of animals are called “living souls” in the creation account.

Consider how the Bible describes the creation of animals. “Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls,” God commanded. On the next creative day, God said: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” (Genesis 1:20,*24) Therefore, all living creatures—human or animal—are souls.

 

[carolinajazz]

And you guys say "Yoga" is "harmless" and "in offensive"?

I suspect that when the big crack down comes on Muslims in this country.....they won't be kind to those "practicing Yoga" either!

"Desperate to empty the Guantanamo Bay prison by the end of his term, Obama quietly is giving “get out of jail free” cards for the flimsiest of excuses.

One al Qaeda suspect captured in Afghanistan is considered reformed because he took up yoga and read a biography of the Dalai Lama. Another is eligible for release because of his “positive attitude.”

https://nypost.com/2014/06/07/no-reform-too-absurd-for-obama-to-spring-gitmo-detainees/

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/06/...p-yoga-and-read-a-biography-of-the-dalai-lama

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

The "ultimate goal"? How did you reach that conclusion? First of all, the human "soul" is not what you think it is at all! The Bible's definition of the "soul" is FAR DIFFERENT than what apostate main stream "Christendom" defines or thinks it is! The idea that prevailed in ancient Babylon and spread worldwide—the idea that man has an immortal soul or spirit that merely inhabits a physical body, is NOT what the Bible teaches!

When Christendom adopted that idea, theologians twisted the Scriptures to make texts that describe the heavenly hope appear to teach that all good people go to heaven. According to this view, a person’s life on earth is intended to be transitory—a test to determine if he is worthy of life in heaven. Something similar happened to the early Jewish hope of everlasting life on earth. As the Jews gradually adopted the Greek idea of inherent immortality, their original hope of life on earth faded. How different this is from the way man is presented in the Bible! Man is a physical creature, not a spirit. The Creator said to the first man: “Dust you are.” (Gen. 3:19) The earth, not heaven, is man’s everlasting home.

(Psalm 115:16) " As for the heavens, they belong to God, But the earth he has given to the sons of men."

That the Soul Is Immortal...is a myth!

What is the origin of the myth? “The early Christian philosophers adopted the Greek concept of the soul’s immortality and thought of the soul as being created by God and infused into the body at conception.”—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1988), Volume*11, page*25.

What does the Bible say? “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”—Ezekiel 18:4, King James Version.
Regarding the creation of the first human soul, the Bible says: “ God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh].”—Genesis 2:7.

The Hebrew word neʹphesh, translated “soul,” means ‘a creature that breathes.’ When God created the first man, Adam, He did not infuse into him an immortal soul but the life force that is maintained by breathing. Therefore, “soul” in the Biblical sense refers to the entire living being. If separated from the life force originally given by God, the soul dies.—Genesis 3:19; Ezekiel 18:20.

I'm not "closed minded" by any stretch of the imagination! Heck, I've already reversed my viewpoint on Curry....and I think he's the best shooter in NBA history! But what is established truth is the TRUTH!

Since nothing is said to imply that the first man was implanted with a soul or received it, we must ask: If the soul “came to be” only after breathing began, why conclude that it continues to live when a person stops breathing and dies? There is no mistaking this fact: Breathing is of do-or-die importance to a soul.

While man is distinct from animals, it is not because of his being a soul. When God let loose devastating floodwaters in Noah’s day, ‘all flesh, flying creatures, domestic animals, wild beasts, all the swarms, and mankind, everything in which the breath of the force of life was active in its nostrils died.’ Those same kinds of animals are called “living souls” in the creation account.

Consider how the Bible describes the creation of animals. “Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls,” God commanded. On the next creative day, God said: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” (Genesis 1:20,*24) Therefore, all living creatures—human or animal—are souls.

Plagiarism

 

[carolinajazz]

Plagiarism

...but is it true?

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

...but is it true?

You are so oblivious that it boggles my mind.

 

[Red]

carolinajazz wrote:

"The 'ultimate goal'? How did you reach that conclusion?

You don't deserve an honest reply, of course, but I'll be a nice guy and lay it on ya anyway.
After all, you keep providing openings...

I was speaking of what a Christian contemplative might call the unitive state. Go back and read it again.
The simple fact is you launch into your Bible in a "first and last of all" sense that is your problem. Not mine. Between the time the Bible was written, both Testaments and the present day, a monastic tradition has existed to permit individuals compelled to be closer to that which they call God a means to do so. Again, the individual can debate the validity of such a path, but people seek meaning, always have, always will. Spiritual understanding does not begin and end with the Bible. The fact that it does for you is, again, your problem, not mine.

So, one quote from a Christian mystic, describing this unitive state, that puzzles you so. It may puzzle everyone but me, I fully admit, but here is an excellent example of what I mean. You don't deserve to be introduced to this man's mind, but I'm having a good day....

“The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love.”


― Meister Eckhart, Sermons of Meister Eckhart

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/73092.Meister_Eckhart

Did it not ever occur to you that seekers after truth, meaning, wisdom, God have actually walked the Earth since your Bible was first written? Did it not ever occur to you that you could learn from them?

 

[Red]

carolinajazz, although it's pointless to think you can learn or accept something new and outside your fossilized straight jacket religious ideology, I'm going to lay more food for thought on you then your closed mind has coming. (I also thought our other respondents would appreciate blowing you out of the water). Sadly, your perspective is not far removed from other religious zealots rampaging the world at the moment. So let's spell some things out and shed some light....

“they do him wrong who take God just in one particular way. They take the way rather than God’ (Sermon 19).”
― Meister Eckhart, Selected Writings

Your's is a controlling religion. Not too unlike the controlling religion of certain fanatics. More a codified ideology then a faith. Where's the love? I think we've outgrown wrathful gods. I think we desperately need to outgrow wrathful deities.

A god that expects rules be enforced. Codified. Fossilized. Meanwhile, people of all faiths or none seek meaning in life outside this highly codified interpretation of the "correct" faith, the "right" religion. Your's is a fossilized Christianity. One that does not promote spiritual growth in the here and now. Meister Eckhart says it better then I ever could. "They do him wrong who take God just in one particular way."


“The most powerful prayer, one well-nigh omnipotent, and the worthiest work of all is the outcome of a quiet mind. The quieter it is the more powerful, the worthier, the deeper, the more telling and more perfect the prayer is. To the quiet mind all things are possible. What is a quiet mind? A quiet mind is one which nothing weighs on, nothing worries, which, free from ties and from all self-seeking, is wholly merged into the will of God and dead to its own.”
― Meister Eckhart

Quieting the mind. Where have we seen that practiced elsewhere? Yoga and meditation perchance? The same goal, the unitive state. The same spiritual exercises to facilitate quieting the mind. East and West. The commonality of the inner traditions of the world's major faiths. Meanwhile, you're mired in a fossilized form of Christianity, unable to understand. Like fanatics of all stripes, you lay your opinion down as a proclamation, and claim to reflect the will of God. Such arrogance! Such audacity! Such utter foolishness!

“There exists only the present instant... a Now which always and without end is itself new. There is no yesterday nor any tomorrow, but only Now, as it was a thousand years ago and as it will be a thousand years hence.”
― Meister Eckhart

Theologians may quarrel, but the mystics of the world speak the same language.”
― Meister Eckhart

The mystics speak the same language, carolinajazz, because there is only one Truth, and whatever practices facilitate achieving that realization is to be encouraged, not condemned by close minded ideologues.

You're best bet is to cease thinking you have the authority to judge yoga, or to judge how people believe or disbelieve, seek or don't seek, read the Bible or never turn a single page. To think you can memorize the Bible and obtain the authority to tell others what is Truth is folly. Your's is a fossilized faith. It's a thing of the past, and in this time, dangerous as well. It is your controlling ideology that portends greater danger, not a technique for healing body and mind. Fear and anger underly your ideology, just as it does the ideology of certain fanatics. If mystics speak the same language, and they do, so too do religious fanatics.

The time for wrathful gods and their warriors, be they Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, must pass. Your fanaticism is telling, and no different then the bad guys that plague our world. The same wrathful god. Please stop pretending you have any authority at all in these matters. We cannot judge yoga from the perspective of an ideologue. It is a warped, indeed a sick, perspective.

And please, don't lecture me on the "proper" definition of the human soul. You would do well to do something about that hubris of yours....

“Love is as strong as death, as hard as Hell. Death separates the soul from the body, but love separates all things from the soul.”
― Meister Eckhart


All quotes:

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/73092.Meister_Eckhart

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

And you guys say "Yoga" is "harmless" and "in offensive"?

I suspect that when the big crack down comes on Muslims in this country.....they won't be kind to those "practicing Yoga" either!

"Desperate to empty the Guantanamo Bay prison by the end of his term, Obama quietly is giving “get out of jail free” cards for the flimsiest of excuses.

One al Qaeda suspect captured in Afghanistan is considered reformed because he took up yoga and read a biography of the Dalai Lama. Another is eligible for release because of his “positive attitude.”

https://nypost.com/2014/06/07/no-reform-too-absurd-for-obama-to-spring-gitmo-detainees/

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/06/...p-yoga-and-read-a-biography-of-the-dalai-lama

So, CJ, you are a self-proclaimed God loving/fearing, Bible adhering person. No doubt you consider yourself a good Christian and a follower of Jesus.

So, in this light, how do you square your bigotry with the teachings of Jesus from the New Testament, including the following:

Matthew 7:12 "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."
John 13: 34-35 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

I'm serious. What kind of rationalizing goes on in your head that leads you to conclude that racism and bigotry are consistent with the teachings of the person you claim to follow who taught that emphathy and loving one's fellow man are among the highest human virtues?

Since you like to quote the Bible so much, and given John 13: 34-35, is there any reason I should not conclude that are not one of Jesus' followers?

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

So, CJ, you are a self-proclaimed God loving/fearing, Bible adhering person. No doubt you consider yourself a good Christian and a follower of Jesus.

So, in this light, how do you square your bigotry with the teachings of Jesus from the New Testament, including the following:

Matthew 7:12 "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."
John 13: 34-35 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

I'm serious. What kind of rationalizing goes on in your head that leads you to conclude that racism and bigotry are consistent with the teachings of the person you claim to follow who taught that emphathy and loving one's fellow man are among the highest human virtues?

Since you like to quote the Bible so much, and given John 13: 34-35, is there any reason I should not conclude that are not one of Jesus' followers?

I have a feeling that we'd better brace ourselves for a cut and paste nightmare.

 

[carolinajazz]

carolinajazz wrote:

"The 'ultimate goal'? How did you reach that conclusion?

You don't deserve an honest reply, of course, but I'll be a nice guy and lay it on ya anyway.
After all, you keep providing openings...

Did it not ever occur to you that seekers after truth, meaning, wisdom.....Did it not ever occur to you that you could learn from them?

You can certainly "learn" from anybody....even if it's what NOT to do! As far as equating "truth" with "wisdom" I'm inclined toward this "truth" as found at 1 Corinthians 3:18, 19 "let no one be seducing himself: If anyone among YOU thinks he is wise in this system of things, let him become a fool, that he may become wise.  For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God; for it is written: “He catches the wise in their own cunning.”

And Proverbs 14:12 " There exists a way that is upright before a man, but the ways of death are the end of it afterward."

 

[carolinajazz]

carolinajazz, although it's pointless to think you can learn or accept something new and outside your fossilized straight jacket religious ideology, I'm going to lay more food for thought on you then your closed mind has coming. (I also thought our other respondents would appreciate blowing you out of the water). So let's spell some things out and shed some light....

“they do him wrong who take God just in one particular way. They take the way rather than God’ (Sermon 19).”
― Meister Eckhart, Selected Writings

A god that expects rules be enforced. Codified. Fossilized. Your's is a fossilized Christianity. One that does not promote spiritual growth in the here and now. Meister Eckhart says it better then I ever could. "They do him wrong who take God just in one particular way."

Quieting the mind. Where have we seen that practiced elsewhere? Yoga and meditation perchance? Meanwhile, you're mired in a fossilized form of Christianity, unable to understand. Like fanatics of all stripes, you lay your opinion down as a proclamation, and claim to reflect the will of God. Such arrogance! Such audacity! Such utter foolishness!

The mystics speak the same language, carolinajazz, because there is only one Truth, and whatever practices facilitate achieving that realization is to be encouraged, not condemned by close minded ideologues.

To think you can memorize the Bible and obtain the authority to tell others what is Truth is folly.

The time for wrathful gods and their warriors, be they Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, must pass.

And please, don't lecture me on the "proper" definition of the human soul.

“Love is as strong as death, as hard as Hell. Death separates the soul from the body, but love separates all things from the soul.”
― Meister Eckhart

I appreciate your observations and viewpoints and it's true....on these boards we sometimes get obsessed with "blowing each other out of the water!" That being said, it seems to me that your viewpoint and opinion on some of these matters being discussed is based on Mr. Meister Eckhart, a German theologian, philosopher and mystic, thus feeling his words of "wisdom" are superior to that of my quotes and use of the Bible! If that's who you want to follow and use as an authority then so be it! But my use of the Bible Canon, is, in fact, the real "truth" on these matters, since it is the product of, not human wisdom but Divine wisdom!

You say or mentioned that there is "only one truth" and you are correct! Thus when it comes to various religious teachings and doctrines, it is not any man, but God, who is the judge of what is true worship. I feel the same way as the Bible writer who said: “Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar.”—Romans 3:3, 4.

The truth will not allow for all the different kinds of religious doctrine in the world. For example, either humans have a soul that survives the death of the body or they do not. Either the earth will last forever or it will not. Either God will bring wickedness to an end or he will not. These and many other beliefs are either right or wrong. There cannot be two sets of truth when one does not agree with the other. One or the other is true, but not both. Sincerely believing something, and practicing that belief, will not make it right if it really is wrong.